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Sunday, 24th June 2018. All times are CET (Central European Time)

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2014-11-27 18:30, IP: 130.76.96.144, from United States 1 positive reactions 1 negative
Sounds to me like you are just repeating what you have heard others say. I know of many Dobermans that work in different IPO clubs across America, USCA, DVG, and UDC. Certainly there is variation, but if the dog shows aptitude and the owner shows a proper level of understanding and committment, there are few clubs that will not take a Doberman(n).

2014-11-27 17:53, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 1 positive reactions 1 negative
I was talking about the American Show Dog People.
There are very few IPO Dobermann people that train to title in North America.
Some IPO clubs will not take a Dobermann.

2014-11-27 14:19, IP: 130.76.96.144, from United States 3 positive reactions 0 negative
2014-11-26 23:16, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 0 positive reactions 4 negative

I am going to say this Dobermanns are a MAN created breed and so no matter what your religious belief any thing MAN does is going to be SERIOUSLY flawed.
--------------------------------

It does not take much research to know that even the ancient breeds are not the same as they were created. All Breeds have been pretty much Man-Made or Altered for the past 150 years or so.

2014-11-27 14:15, IP: 130.76.96.144, from United States 4 positive reactions 1 negative
You sell the American breeders way short. There are good and bad breeders everywhere.

2014-11-27 05:16, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 2 positive reactions 1 negative
There are flaws in every Dobermann. Good breeders recognize the flaws in their lines
and strive to improve with each breeding. Knowing how to read pedigrees and actually
see the breeding partners is escentual. Europeans go to shows and IPO trials. American
look at photoShop photos in Dobermann magazines.

2014-11-26 23:16, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 0 positive reactions 4 negative
I am going to say this Dobermanns are a MAN created breed and so no matter what your religious belief any thing MAN does is going to be SERIOUSLY flawed.

2014-11-26 23:06, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 2 positive reactions 1 negative
2 positive reactions 0 negative

Gallespie
I gave you information on good Western European breeders
in North America. Have you contacted any of them or do you need your hand held
and walked through the research process????

Thank you for that, I have owned Dobermanns for 30 years and really do not need any help. I was just trying to get someone to step up and say something positive about any breeder. I all ready know who I like and will deal with the consequences of my choices but when people like the person from Mexico which I assume is new to the breed ask a question about the Dobermann, everything should not be negative, or our breed willrely die, if any new person reads the stuff on here. I have been on here since it started and do let people opinions scare me away from the breed. I am not happy abut the crop /dock rule but it will not scare me away because I live in U.S. and if I decide to breed I can do both. So. I was not asking for myself but for future Dobermann owners. The point I was making is this should not only be a negative forum but if someone comes on here and ask for information, give it to them even if it is your own opinion. Every one on here owns a Dobermann and we all know the bad things about the race, but there are a lot of good things about the race. Take it from me, I am a black man that lives in the U.S. so I know all the bad things that can be said about a race and until I joined the military and travel extensively in Europe I found out that not all people think that way, if most people did not like me it was because of me. (Sometimes I was a asshole but it was not because I was black, it was more because I was an American who thought we ruled the world.) Life is about choices, so lets not turn new prospective Dobermann owners away from a noble Breed. Everything is not about showing or working, they make great companions that I plan to own one or more until I die.

One more thing my last name is Gillespie, first name Bryant. I do not have to hide anything :)

2014-11-26 23:01, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 4 positive reactions 0 negative
Germany:
The 50% mortality rate has been discussed in the past and I feel the number
is accurate. I am not a vet but I do read and talk with many people involved with
the race. My question to you is, where will we be next year and the following years to come.
Poor breeding and over use of a few infected males will finally reduce the healthy Gene pool to
a low number where the race can not recover.
It all has come down to a few breeders that have healthy Dobermanns but they are keeping the litters
close by for future use.

2014-11-26 20:26, IP: 84.155.248.136, from Germany 4 positive reactions 1 negative
But you can also name other breeders around the world - without problems...

I search for it but i think this race is damaged... :-(

2014-11-26 20:22, IP: 84.155.248.136, from Germany 3 positive reactions 0 negative
I don't say any word about any breeder but fact EVERY line has problems - US and Euro.
More than 50 % will die of cardio - US and Euro - please name only one breeder - without cardio
in the last second generations (many carrier and affected)... I don't know one in US and Europe...

2014-11-26 19:39, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 2 positive reactions 0 negative
Gallespie
I gave you information on good Western European breeders
in North America. Have you contacted any of them or do you need your hand held
and walked through the research process????

2014-11-26 19:39, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 1 positive reactions 4 negative
Should have mentioned, when mate with right female.

2014-11-26 19:38, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 1 positive reactions 5 negative
I have heard good things about Urbano puppies and his line. He has good age and is a good producer from everything I have heard.

2014-11-26 19:29, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 1 positive reactions 1 negative
2014-11-26 10:43, IP: 84.155.228.60, from Germany 5 positive reactions 1 negative

There are no healthy Western European blood lines!!! Please name only one...

Are there any at all? If so, please say it here. Even if it is just your opinion, that is what the forum is for or least what is considered healthy lines from anywhere. I ask because I am in market for two puppies and I am in U.S so I do not have to deal with the politics.

2014-11-26 11:04, IP: 151.33.183.93, from Italy 4 positive reactions 0 negative
is true that the DV doenn't recognize the HD result from Russia, Hungary, Serbia and otjhers country for the ZTP?

2014-11-26 10:43, IP: 84.155.228.60, from Germany 8 positive reactions 1 negative
There are no healthy Western European blood lines!!! Please name only one...

2014-11-25 19:06, IP: 95.87.236.221, from Bulgaria 4 positive reactions 1 negative
You can register the puppies yourself as the breeder under your own name and then transfer ownership to the buyers later on if you are so worried about the registered name being altered. There are way too many control freak breeders over there, it's ridiculous to be expected to commit to signing a contract for a dog that is more anal than if you were adopting a child. And on top of that, having to hand over a nice sum for the "privilege" of only partially owning what supposedly is your dog.

Breeders over there whine about how so many people choose to import, but that's exactly what I would do if I lived in the US. What it all comes down to ultimately, whether you are breeding here in Europe or over there, is to make sure you properly screen your buyers.

2014-11-25 18:44, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 1 positive reactions 0 negative
Go to
The Working Dobermann Breeders Project

You will find many good Dobermann breeders that work/title in IPO
using healthy Western European blood lines. Most live in North America.
Don't worry about the list being incomplete, use it as a starting point.

2014-11-25 18:24, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 1 positive reactions 0 negative
The breeders that I know in North America are charging 2500USD for a pup and this includes
cropping/docking and shots. A pup from good Western European blood lines, health tested and titled.
You would be very foolish to pay 5000USD or even 3500USD.

Also, would you please list some of these breeders, because I have been looking and have not found a single one that matched the above deion.

2014-11-25 18:22, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 2 positive reactions 1 negative
Sorry, wrong again.
The shipping from Germany to San Francisco is 500USD
Cost of pup 1800USD Cost of shipping is 500USD Cost of
cropping/docking is 500USD.
This is nowhere your costs. If you paid more than you were cheated.

I never brought a dog from Germany because of the crock/dock but I live in Ohio and I have picked my dogs up in DC, Michigan and Ohio than and none of them are even close to the 500 U.S you mentioned. It cost me more than 500 US when I brought one back with me from Italy some years ago. But if what you believe to be true, why in the hell would someone buy a dog from any U.S Breeder breeding Euro pups and most charge more than the $2500 dollars mentioned on here with limited registration I know I would not and don't. As for the reasons mentioned below, some are true but the truth is that they do not want any competition and they deal on people not doing their research, thinking they are doing them a favor so they do not have to import them on their own.

2014-11-25 17:38, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 4 positive reactions 1 negative
If you live in a country that will not register an Albino Dobermann then you don't need to worry about
limited registration.
If you live in a country that will not register Blues and Fawns don't worry about limited registration.
If you live in a country that does not petmit altering puppy regisrtation forms then don't worry about limited registration.
If you live in a country that has a strong breed club that has no tolerance for new owners changing the
names on registration papers to show them as the actual breeders then don't worry about limited registration.

These things do happen in America so the good breeders protect themselves by sending out pups with breeding restrictions. Breeders also have the option of removing breeding restrictions.

If you lived under this type of system you would do the same thing to protect your kennel name.

2014-11-25 12:27, IP: 95.87.236.221, from Bulgaria 4 positive reactions 0 negative
There are breeders in Europe doing all the appropriate health testing each year, working and titling their dogs etc. and they don't charge 2000 euros per pup. And an even bigger joke on top of that is you're paying that price for a dog on limited registration (can't be bred etc.) or co-ownership with 12 page long contracts dictating what you can and cannot do. Hell no.

If I were to pay that kind of money, I'd like to actually OWN my dog and that means I decide whether or not to breed it etc. Like I said before, unless that price includes full papers and shipping from a far away land ie. the dog is an import, the pup had better shit gold.

2014-11-25 05:39, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 2 positive reactions 1 negative
Sorry, wrong again.
The shipping from Germany to San Francisco is 500USD
Cost of pup 1800USD Cost of shipping is 500USD Cost of
cropping/docking is 500USD.
This is nowhere your costs. If you paid more than you were cheated.

2014-11-25 05:14, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 2 positive reactions 0 negative
The breeders that I know in North America are charging 2500USD for a pup and this includes
cropping/docking and shots. A pup from good Western European blood lines, health tested and titled.
You would be very foolish to pay 5000USD or even 3500USD.

Almost half of that cost includes the importing of the puppy.

2014-11-25 03:08, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 1 positive reactions 2 negative
I will break this down for you and explain why some of these bitches can shit gold.
For 2500USD you can buy a good bitch that has a excellent working pedigree, from health
tested parents. Train the bitch and when she is old enough complete all the health tests and
put a IPO title on her. IPO clubs usually charge 400/450USD a year for club dues. The cost of the health
tests can run 2000USD. If the bitch is clear of health problems and put to a good male the pups can be sold for 2500USD each. This includes cropping/docking. Depending on what the bitch whelped the litter could show a profit of many times over what the owner has invested. Some of the health tests need to be repeated next year but hardly the cost of the first testing. Breed a bitch three in her life and you will have your gold
as well as nice pups on the ground. The breeders I know usually keep a nice pup or place them with trusted club members. Cost of good healthy titled stud could run 2000USD. There are very few quality Western European Dobermanns in America. There is a market for these dogs.
American Show Dog pups can run up to 3000USD but then you run the risk of health problems.
Greedy breeders can support them selves and their familys on dog breeding they keep the cost down by faking health test results. This is why most good breeders put a limited AKC registration on thier pups.

2014-11-25 02:03, IP: 95.87.236.221, from Bulgaria 4 positive reactions 3 negative
You think even $2500 (2000 euros) is a good price for a puppy? And people wonder why interest in the breed is declining. For that price, the pup had better shit gold.

2014-11-25 01:28, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 2 positive reactions 0 negative
The breeders that I know in North America are charging 2500USD for a pup and this includes
cropping/docking and shots. A pup from good Western European blood lines, health tested and titled.
You would be very foolish to pay 5000USD or even 3500USD.

2014-11-25 01:08, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 0 positive reactions 2 negative
It seems to me that a lot of people only like the doberman because of the look and nothing else?

I do not think anyone wants their dog to die :( It cost between 3500 to 5000 U.S dollars to get a puppy here, so we definitely care about the health as well as the look. I personally like the crop/dock, yes, to each his own.

2014-11-25 00:10, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 3 positive reactions 0 negative
Someone should have a chat with Doctor Pezzano.

2014-11-24 23:32, IP: 130.180.250.202, from Serbia 8 positive reactions 0 negative
2014-11-24 23:01, IP: 93.174.93.145, from Netherlands 0 positive reactions 0 negative
Dead from DCM as many from Leo v Märkischen land

PHOENIX PARADISE Tromelin (Leo v Märkischen land x Lara Larina Tromelin) 16.03.2012 - 23.05.2014



Yes Leo is partly responsible,but look at Lara's pedigree (full of DCM dead dogs)
Akuna Matata,arbat aldo (snake bite in russia?lol,with 3% inbreeding on ebo..hmmm),Tigr,Ugor,Indira,Astor,again Indira,.....)
The worst thing breeder can do is to make line breeding on dogs which died from DCM.

 

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