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Sunday, 4th December 2016. All times are CET (Central European Time)

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2014-11-22 17:07, IP: 82.82.81.247, from Germany 10 positive reactions 5 negative
"oscar z�'padoku was oficially tested for cardio in
spring 2011 and in april 2012...both times negativ"

But now, in November 2014 !!!

Oscar z Padoku, whelped 2009-07-19
(Yacheero's Pando Pandero x Ak-Yar Raya)

She was doing cardio in the 2 and 3 years, then do not? No questions?

2014-11-22 16:07, IP: 77.4.160.186, from Germany 10 positive reactions 6 negative
serbia...go breeding chickens in future, hahaha

2014-11-22 15:12, IP: 77.4.160.186, from Germany 3 positive reactions 14 negative
just for information:

oscar z'padoku was oficially tested for cardio in
spring 2011 and in april 2012...both times negativ.

you can see the documents at his breeder mrs. wanda zielak.



so please don't write bullshit without knowing the facts!



a dobermannfriend

2014-11-22 14:03, IP: 90.49.83.24, from France 8 positive reactions 0 negative
The real truth is if breeders where honest regarding cause of death maybe some would have been saved that have gone on to die :( am I the only person that has noticed that bloat is now killing young dogs, cancer, even road accidents and poisonings I'm not saying these dogs haven't died from these causes but its easier than saying my top stud has dropped dead, or my female that has already produced 2-3 litters has dropped dead, any breeder who will lie about a cause of death doesn't truly love the breed because if they did they would want to expose DCM dogs in there breeding to try and help stop it!!

2014-11-22 12:50, IP: 78.129.148.101, from United Kingdom 8 positive reactions 4 negative
Tira Vento Red Bull (Oscar Z Padoku/Tira Vento Becherovka) born 28-03-2013 died just from DCM

also Zorro Ginga House died from DCM young

http://www.dobermannpedigrees.nl/modules/pedigree/dog.php?id=234412

2014-11-22 12:16, IP: 81.48.93.71, from France 3 positive reactions 0 negative
The only people that will be able to have our beautiful breed as it should be are those that have no interest in shows work or breeding , they just want a beautiful Dobermann to live in there house, because they will take there puppies from breeders and crop & dock them in those countries were it is allowed, you will not stop them! it is only the breeders that have to suffer as we cannot keep the dogs as we want to because then we cannot do anything with them :((((

2014-11-22 09:52, IP: 88.158.25.108, from Romania 9 positive reactions 1 negative
I don't think many breeders will stop breeding dobermann because of turning to natural dogs since 2015, but because the health of this breed has been extremely poor lately. Honest or not so honest breeders are almost equally affected by DCM, cancer or other diseases that literally destroy the breed. The information now is well spread via facebook, so everybody knows. It's a beautiful, super breed, but it's heartbreaking to lose them so young...The pressure on a honest, correct breeder is huge because that breeder cares for what he produces and every dog that dies from his breeding is causing pain, frustration, disappointment. He has to deal with the owner pain and frustration, also and in time this leads to giving up this breed. Very sad....

2014-11-22 08:09, IP: 94.145.74.135, from Denmark 6 positive reactions 1 negative
It seems to me that a lot of people only like the doberman because of the look and nothing else?

2014-11-22 06:58, IP: 95.87.236.221, from Bulgaria 3 positive reactions 0 negative
I personally would not give up, no. But there was a survey done on another site some months ago which showed 26 percent said they would give up breeding if they were no longer allowed to crop, another 29 percent said they were not sure. Only one third said that they would breed natural Dobermanns, so the future looks pretty bleak...

2014-11-22 02:11, IP: 189.249.56.54, from Mexico 4 positive reactions 6 negative
So are any of you really thinking on givin up breeding because of the ban on docking and cropping? If so that would be a big disappointment, why to stop breeding the breed you say you love, if ban is really happening why not to get over it and work for the well being of the race instead of complaining about how those measures (good or bad) will destroy the breed, the only thing. Some of you (Serbia) was so pissed because dobermann is a working dog so needs ears cropped, well a lot of uncropped dogs work really good (plus the cropping nowadays is for aesthetics, one can grab those ears without a problem). So why no to make a little extra effort and train your dogs and win work titles with them so you can show people that a dobermann is a dobermann with or without ears and tail, and why not win conformation titles to show your dobermann is a pretty dobermann with or without ears? Why not to help people with good information to avoid cheaters? IMHO that is what needs to be done in order to keep the breed in the mind of the people. Plus you are so worried, but people who likes dobermann and has no interest in show their dogs (vast majority let me tell you) are going to keep d/c if they want, at least in countries which laws allow it.

I do not mean to be right or wrong, this is just the opinion of a fan of the breed, not a breeder, or a profesional of the dog world, who really want the well being of the dobermann.

2014-11-21 23:27, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 1 positive reactions 2 negative
2014-11-21 22:20, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 1 positive reactions 1 negative

This was a bad combination from both sides.
This tells me to avoid Betelgis and Grande Vinko
in this combination or any other breedings.

Really, you would condemn both kennels for this, is their any kennels this has not happen to that you know for sure? Then I guess it is ture our Dobermanns will surely perish :(

2014-11-21 23:16, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 1 positive reactions 2 negative
I have to ask this again and especially after reading post, because I keep hearing this, what is a good bloodline, when I started in Dobermanns back in the 70's I brought all of my dogs from and old German man who trained dogs for the military both Dobermanns and Belgium Sheppard's, believe it or not he did not like German Sheppard's. I purchased both breeds for him and thought he was the meanest man I ever met because if he did not believe a dog was trainable he would out them to sleep. It sounds like a lot of people on here would do the same. I believe a lot of dogs should not be allowed to breed but to put them to sleep is cruel. I have owned dogs for over 40 of my years and have never bred any of them, because I know I would not have been a responsible breeder and did not need to breed for a living. I know am a lot more knowledgeable about the breed and if I should choose to breed it will not be for profit, it will be because I want another like the two I bred, this is why I come on here to ask questions. The only problem with that and others that come on here for help, seems to be nothing but gloom and doom. I am asking please if you know, tell us who do lot live overseas, give us something positive. I myself have had excellent experience with the owners of Focus Kennels. I am sure someone may not agree but they are people I will deal with again. Why, they do things I like, like tell you about their dogs even the ones that died early. As mentioned here, most will not do that and it nothing to be ashamed about, everything dies. Obviously I have nothing to do tonight, it is cold here in Ohio in the U.S :(, so I decided to get something's off mind. Now I will go give my boy Dobe a bath ad play with him, while I can :).

2014-11-21 22:38, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 2 positive reactions 3 negative
All the health testing in the world is not going to help if people just keep breeding the same lines as Bob, Sue and Jenny, running to popular sires, and inbreeding on sick dogs. A dog is healthy until it is not.

This is not even touching on the fact that there are plenty doctored health tests and fake working titles out there. JMO.

Yes, There will all ways be crooks like politicians but if we know about them they must be exposed. It will take awhile but and may be to late but the dogs are worth it. I am 50 so I may be a little old for the fight but I am going to try and do my part and out of all the boys I help, if just one keeps it up that is one more to fight for our Dobes. I am in the U.S and there are a few of us here that I am sure will do their part. Yes, there are a lot of bad lines and it always was and will be, they all come from the same dogs but I believe in genetics and the strong will survive even from bad lines. Nothing kills everything, we have to take the long live survivors from the lines even if it through artificial means and keep their lines going. Urbano, seems to be a good one, if Ferro is still living also another, Ardens Gauguin another. Doing my own research I know people will say these dogs like Gino and others do not have the greatest of lines, I do not wish to argue that but they are long lived, so they fought of their lines (as they say what does not kill you makes you stronger) I like to believe this for myself and my Dobermanns. What needs to stop ASAP is dogs win big titles and have 100's of litters right away at two years old. This is where I believe all the problems started and I have done a lot of research on this matter. It was just not big breeders that started this, it was the whole Dobermann community. So we need stop blaming everyone and try to get this solved. Yes, the cropping /docking thing is not well received but there are other things to focus on, time will resolve that because people in power die like the rest of us. Nothing last forever.

2014-11-21 22:21, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 2 positive reactions 0 negative
2014-11-21 02:23, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 7 positive reactions 0 negative

Let's hear it:
All your observations and comments would be fine if we lived in
1985. Sorry that was 30 years ago and the quality of the breed has suffered due to
poor breeding, poor leadership and the acceptance of large commercial breeders.
The ban on cropping/docking did not help. You gave us a wish list and it is not going
to happen, you are far too late. Now you have to take what you can get and the getting
is not good. All the best of luck on your search.

Thank you, but we cannot just give up.

2014-11-21 22:20, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 5 positive reactions 3 negative
This was a bad combination from both sides.
This tells me to avoid Betelgis and Grande Vinko
in this combination or any other breedings.

2014-11-21 21:34, IP: 88.114.163.85, from Finland 9 positive reactions 3 negative
Puppy of obi van kenobi grande vinko and galilea betelges died becouse DCM in age 6 month, what do you think, witch one was it ?

2014-11-21 19:27, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 3 positive reactions 1 negative
Serbia:
I feel your pain as I have been through this a few times in the past.
Most feel your pain however there are some that could care less.
These few are the problem breeders that live of their Dobermanns.
They are not limited to Eastern Europa, they are world wide. There
is a very big problem in America with cheating. America out produces
so I will start with them. Greedy breeders selling frozen semen collections
from a male that died of some form of Cardio. Continued to sell after the death
of the 5 year old male and stupid Americans buying after knowing full well
how the dog died. American breeders standing in line to use another male that was
very sick and later died. Silly American breeders braging that were lucky to use the male
just in time. The ignorance is astonishing.

2014-11-21 19:13, IP: 93.86.223.108, from Serbia 2 positive reactions 0 negative
I'm sorry for your loss, but unfortunately, DCM is the biggest problem that affects Dobermann (and some other breeds as well) breed today. The whole breed, not just dogs from certain kennels.

2014-11-21 18:23, IP: 109.245.100.139, from Serbia 16 positive reactions 8 negative
It's been more than a week since my little boy died...
Izrafel Victor Vendetta (Oscar z Padoku x Niki Nova Tejat Posterior) died 13.11.2014. in the morning because of DCM (Dilated Cardiomyopathy). Dilated Cardiomyopathy is a condition where the heart expands and the heart muscle deteriorates. One third of DCM affected Dobermans will experience sudden death.
The key to overcoming this disease includes purchasing our Doberman puppies from responsible breeders who research their blood lines and do not breed Dobermans with a family history of DCM.
After Victor's death, I found out that his father, Oscar z Padoku has a DCM family history, to be more exact, Oscar's mother died because of DCM. In Niki's bloodline, not a one dog had DCM.
Victor is not the only young dog that died...Buff di Baduli, also died a few days ago...Cause of death: DCM. A few more young dogs, also died because of DCM...all of them had the same father- Oscar z Padoku.
That Makes Miss Wanda Zielak a very irresponsible breeder- knowing that her dog is a carrier of this desease, and still breeding him... just to mention, mating with Oscar costs 600 euros.
THE PROBLEM IS BECAUSE ALL THE "BIG" BREEDERS KEEP THEIR MOUTH SHUT ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE THEY BASED THEIR "GLORY" ON OSCAR'S PROGENY. THEY DON'T CARE FOR HOW LONG THESE DOGS WILL LIVE...FOR THEM, WHAT'S IMPORTANT, IT'S MONEY...EVERYTHING IS ABOUT MONEY..
WELL, MY DEAR GENTLEMAN (AND LADY), FOR ME, VICTOR WAS NOT A MONEY-MAKING MACHINE, HE WAS NOT A MALE PRODUCER, HE WAS A FAMILY MEMBER. I RAISED HIM LIKE I WOULD MY OWN CHILD, I SPOILED HIM LIKE I WOULD MY OWN CHILD, AND I LOVED HIM MORE THAN I COULD LOVE ANY CHILD. I CALLED HIM MY LITTLE BABY-BABY. I SHARED MY BED WITH HIM, I SHARED MY LIFE WITH HIM....HE WAS NOT KEPT IN A CAGE IN THE BACKYARD, HE WAS SLEEPING IN MY BED, AND HE HAD HIS PLACE BY THE DINING TABLE. HE WAS A SWEET YOUNG PUPPY, AND HE LOVED ME, LIKE I LOVED HIM, WITH ALL THE HEART. THAT MORNING...HIS LITTLE LOVING HEART LITERALLY EXPLODED. HE SCREAMED IN A PAIN AND PASSED AWAY...MORE THAN TWO HOURS I WAS LYING NEXT TO HIS LIFELESS BODY AND CRYING HIS NAME AND ASKING WHY???
I WILL TELL YOU WHY- BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING BUT THE MONEY.
I AM NOT WRITING ALL THIS BECAUSE OF MYSELF...IT IS LATE FOR ME, PART OF ME IS GONE FOR GOOD, AND WILL NEVER COME BACK...I AM WRITING THIS BECAUSE MAYBE I WILL SAVE SOMEBODY ELSE, AND SPARE HIM/HER THE PAIN AND THE SUFFERING.
IF WE TAKE A LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE, IF WE CONTINUE TO BREED DOGS WITH DCM HISTORY, SOON, DOBERMANNS WILL DISAPPEAR.

DO NOT BUY DOGS FROM IRRESPONSIBLE BREEDERS, DO NOT MATE YOUR DOGS WITH OSCAR Z PADOKU, DO NOT BUY PUPPIES WHO HAVE OSCAR Z PADOKU IN THEIR PEDIGREE.

2014-11-21 17:01, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 0 positive reactions 1 negative
What was the cause of death of
T'Azazel de L'Ultrachen

2014-11-21 11:30, IP: 95.87.236.221, from Bulgaria 5 positive reactions 0 negative
All the health testing in the world is not going to help if people just keep breeding the same lines as Bob, Sue and Jenny, running to popular sires, and inbreeding on sick dogs. A dog is healthy until it is not.

This is not even touching on the fact that there are plenty doctored health tests and fake working titles out there. JMO.

2014-11-21 02:23, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 7 positive reactions 0 negative
Let's hear it:
All your observations and comments would be fine if we lived in
1985. Sorry that was 30 years ago and the quality of the breed has suffered due to
poor breeding, poor leadership and the acceptance of large commercial breeders.
The ban on cropping/docking did not help. You gave us a wish list and it is not going
to happen, you are far too late. Now you have to take what you can get and the getting
is not good. All the best of luck on your search.

2014-11-20 22:54, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 5 positive reactions 3 negative
I should have included that no dog should be a Sieger, World Champion or other top shows with out complete health results, ZTP, and IPO III, or SCH III or whatever label for top of the working field. There can still be other shows but I believe for the IDC, World champion title this should be mandatory. The last true champion I seen would have been Oskamit, he possessed all of these qualities maybe minus a few health test that he may or may not have.

Again Let's hear it :)

2014-11-20 22:49, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 2 positive reactions 0 negative
Portugal:
I understand your meaning.
In North America the term hobby breeder usually means a poor breeder
that breeds for Beer money.

2014-11-20 22:46, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 4 positive reactions 3 negative
Here are a few things I think would help our breed even though I am sure some would disagree but I believe would be a good starting point before dogs should be bred;
All dogs should have minimum health test of following:
- HD (Rating of B good or higher)
- vWD (no affected)
- Eyes (CERF)
- Wobbler
- Parvo
- Rabies
- DCM
- Holter (When of Age)
- Welcome to add any I missed

Should not be bred before 3 years of Age (and then limited breeding )
Should have some sort of character test (ZTP, BH, CGC, etc..)
Should be completely with in the standard as judged (No exceptions)
Breeders should be limited on the amount of litters can produce & register in a year
Cropping and Docking should be legal if done by a vet (compromise)

This is what I believe will help save the breed, I know first hand test are expensive but also would help keep down mass breeding's and cannot be a bad thing even if some believe that all of them are not necessary.
Let's hear it :)

2014-11-20 22:40, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 1 positive reactions 2 negative
USA - what I call a hobby-breeder is a breeder who is not breeding dogs for a living.

I understand and meant no offense to you.

2014-11-20 22:37, IP: 94.145.74.135, from Denmark 2 positive reactions 1 negative
USA - what I call a hobby-breeder is a breeder who is not breeding dogs for a living.

2014-11-20 22:33, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 2 positive reactions 3 negative
WorkingDobermannbreedersproject.com

You will find many well known honest breeders there.

2014-11-20 22:13, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 1 positive reactions 0 negative
There are people who are not even hobby breeders but want good dogs and do complete health testing on all my dogs and do all the research on puppy's I buy. I have not bred any of my dogs but if I choose to so, I will. I pay very good money for my dogs which are my pets and I occasionally train at a local sport club or in my yard. I have a friend who is professional trainer and he is training the one I believe is worth training. The others are used in a program I run. My point being that all dogs do not have to do shows and have titles to be good dogs nor do they have to be bred if the buyer does not want to do it and just want town a good dog. I have been pretty lucky with the ones I have purchased and they were not from big name kennels. I purchased the lines I like from people who had a fair price and were very friendly and helpful with not only their dogs but gave me a lot of if on other dogs I inquired about. There are a lot of good breeders out there. Instead of keep bringing up all of the bad breeders, recommend some good ones when someone comes on here looking for some help. Is this not what this forum is for?

2014-11-20 21:51, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 5 positive reactions 2 negative
Portugal:
Most hobby breeders don't do much with their Dobermanns.
There is a very big difference between a hobby breeder and a
sport dog breeder Most hobby breeders don't know where to go for
reasearch on a stud dog, they just use what is close. Titles mean nothing to
a hobby breeder, they don't bother to title or health test because breeding is just
a hobby, nothing more so why bother. Buy from a hobby breeder and you buy into health problems and poor menatality. A sport/show dog breeder will invest a lot into a breeding and they are interested in placing
their litters into the very best homes.

 

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