Chatboard | Dobermann Review

chatboard chatboard
POST A MESSAGE:
Be constructive! This chatboard is in some way a mirror of our dobermann community - think about what kind of image that mirror reflects before submitting a message.
Anti-spam question: Your favorite dog breed?

Tuesday, 3rd March 2015. All times are CET (Central European Time)

Be advised not to take for granted everything you read here. Posts can be deleted on request.

2817 entries.

« Previous page | Next page »

2014-03-15 01:08, IP: 98.26.91.78, from USA 1 positive reactions 0 negative
Romania: The breed is dead if we do not try and save it. Complaining about dogs does nothing if you don't take action to change it. You make this list of dogs but it's disjointed and several of the dogs you mention are closely related and lived to be old. That's not to say they did not produce problems. I wonder why you not mention GGdC at all, that is a dog that can be avoided still. Even Ebo can be avoided in some dogs. The working lines also have their own problem dog in Hertog Conan.

Bulgaria: I think you are on the right track, but there's more to it. Sometimes the latter 4 or 5 are more important than those first two generations depending on the dogs you are bringing together. They are all important though. Especially if we want to make a change in this breed. It's bringing together the right dogs to build from and knowing those dogs. It's also drawing a line in the sand now and saying we will no longer use certain dogs. We do have the power to build better dogs but it is an effort to work together, to be open to views, to discussion, to a desire for knowledge. The desire for knowledge being what we need the most and is lacking the most in the breed. It also has to be about what makes the combinations unique, not just that they are unique.

2014-03-12 20:53, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 6 positive reactions 3 negative
You are wrong . Except some dogs from working lines and few Easterns dogs which escaped and now are mixed , all actual dobermanns , back than 5 generations have same ancestors : Odin, Chico , Brian and scores of others Forells , tones of Frankenhorsts,
Nerland Stamms from Olive and Quirinus again and again , Royals and Renewals , Hertog Alpha again and again , Gamon , Gringo and Guido , Festus Neerland Stam which in reality is another Olive descenant (as Don Dayan ), Ebo Groote Maat, Alva and Amarilda . This is a genetical reality . That dogs genetical diminance killed dobermann breed.

-------------
2014-03-12 13:01, IP: 91.0.158.82, from Germany 3 positive reactions 0 negative

At Germany: But I believe that if we try to put in more diversity and use dogs who are not in the picture or without all those so called titles and ZTP we slowly can spread the genepool. I firmly believe that is what we need.

2014-03-12 20:39, IP: 95.87.236.221, from Bulgaria 12 positive reactions 1 negative
The problem is even if you sell all the puppies, if they all go to pet homes and no one is interested in doing anything with them then despite your best efforts, you are still not impacting on the overall genetic diversity of the breed. The dogs have to be a part of the breeding population to make a difference.

2014-03-12 20:27, IP: 95.87.236.221, from Bulgaria 5 positive reactions 0 negative
There are several reasons why I chose him:
1) of the dogs in similar ages, he had one of the best Echo Doppler results
2) many stud owners are not open to doing more health tests and I refuse to use untested dogs
3) I could find information on the first two generations at least (there are several breeders who won't even tell you if a dog is alive or dead - and I don't want to use the descendent of a possible "zombie").

I plan to keep importing in future (and yes I meant diversity with my import bitch), and in the upcoming litters, I will be using different lines including working line dogs. But as you can see, even with a dog from fairly well known lines (even if the stud is not popular himself), there is very little interest. I imagine there would be even less if I were to use for example Zamu Les Deux Peupliers or Criss Royal Dux.

So, what should I do? It would be nice if there was a small group of breeders who are doing the same thing or hold similar opinions and we could all pool our resources and maintain genetic diversity. Of course, that's just a dream :-).

2014-03-12 20:01, IP: 130.180.250.202, from Serbia 6 positive reactions 1 negative
One interesting female:
http://www.dobermannpedigrees.nl/modules/pedigree/pedigree.php?pedid=233918
COI:10.36%
Partial inbreeding to:Cassi v Bayern 7.47%

2014-03-12 19:53, IP: 130.180.250.202, from Serbia 7 positive reactions 1 negative
@bulgaria
I assume that you are owner of Black Athirat kennel...
I can only partly agree with you regarding spreading genepool and adding diversity in our breed(it is your imported bitch Megan (Diaz)

But why you used DJ dei Nobili Nati?He represents the same gene pool as majority of today's dobermanns (Gino Gomez,2xAstor del Citone,Arielle amour del citone,Antosarte del citone,Tigr,Ugor,Indira...)all of them are the dogs which should be avoided.

2014-03-12 16:51, IP: 95.87.236.221, from Bulgaria 8 positive reactions 0 negative
France - I currently have a litter "bred outside the box", and there is very little interest. Parents both have titles, fully health tested etc. The fact is people, even pet people, want a certain look, certain lines etc. I'm not going to switch to popular stud dogs any time soon, but I can understand that especially as a new breeder, experimenting and ending up with a bunch of unsold puppies can be something of a deterrent.

2014-03-12 13:09, IP: 91.0.158.82, from Germany 4 positive reactions 0 negative
P.S. I am on holiday now in Germany, so same person as France.

At Bulgaria:
I really do not believe you will have problems selling puppies. Majority of puppies go to families who want to have a pet dog. Only few go to owners who will go to show or train with them.

At Germany: you can not get any guarentee, even when our breed would be healthy. But I believe that if we try to put in more diversity and use dogs who are not in the picture or without all those so called titles and ZTP we slowly can spread the genepool. I firmly believe that is what we need.

Ofcourse we can not quickly fix what has been destroyed for years, but I hope you agree that if we continue in the path now chosen the Dobermann breed will be dead soon.

I do not have the answers or a quick rescueplan. I can only say, if we continue all with the same bloodlines (all running to the same pricewinning dogs) there is no rescue.

I know for a fact that in some countries there are bloodlines who are more healthy then the popular ones. They are only not used because of the fear of breeders they will not sell puppies. That is ridiculous.

Breeding should always be for the love of the breed and trying to improve the quality, not make quick money.

2014-03-12 13:01, IP: 91.0.158.82, from Germany 4 positive reactions 0 negative
At Bulgaria:
I really do not believe you will have problems selling puppies. Majority of puppies go to families who want to have a pet dog. Only few go to owners who will go to show or train with them.

At Germany: you can not get any guarentee, even when our breed would be healthy. But I believe that if we try to put in more diversity and use dogs who are not in the picture or without all those so called titles and ZTP we slowly can spread the genepool. I firmly believe that is what we need.

Ofcourse we can not quickly fix what has been destroyed for years, but I hope you agree that if we continue in the path now chosen the Dobermann breed will be dead soon.

I do not have the answers or a quick rescueplan. I can only say, if we continue all with the same bloodlines (all running to the same pricewinning dogs) there is no rescue.

I know for a fact that in some countries there are bloodlines who are more healthy then the popular ones. They are only not used because of the fear of breeders they will not sell puppies. That is ridiculous.

Breeding should always be for the love of the breed and trying to improve the quality, not make quick money.

2014-03-12 05:57, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 3 positive reactions 2 negative
Germany, I can't .
Now, healtly lines do not exist . All was total losted or mixed .

2014-03-12 05:10, IP: 80.129.208.242, from Germany 1 positive reactions 1 negative
w.a. please name us the healthy lines !

2014-03-12 02:53, IP: 95.87.236.221, from Bulgaria 3 positive reactions 1 negative
France - nice idea and I hold the same opinion. But what happens when you do breed outside of the box and then you have problems selling puppies :-)

2014-03-11 21:35, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 3 positive reactions 1 negative
The problem is genetical and after score of years , there do not remained more alternatives . Was needed other 10 years to understand the problems of this breed . 10 losted years .
Now will need another 10 years to change something in this system and to preserve actual genepool . The problem is that the actual genepool can't be improved on health .
To improve the health of imense number of actual dobermanns is needed INFUSION OF HEALTHY DOBERMANNS . 1) the system is not ready to accept them , they are eliminated from shows , show breeders still do not want them 2) all the longevive lines are almost extincted and mixed , the last genersations are every year losted in anonimity .
Doberman race have more than a political problem. Have a BIG GENETICAL PROBLEM .
This is my opinion , and I know very well what i say.

2014-03-11 19:37, IP: 213.251.189.203, from France 13 positive reactions 1 negative
What breeders need to do is think for themselfs. Does a dog really need all those titles. Does a dog really need a ZTP what is fixed. Ofcourse the basic idea of mr. Vogel was good. But nowadays most dogs train for half a year or more... it says nothing anymore about the character of the dog.

In most countries you can breed without the ZTP and without all titles like America said earlier. The focus should be on health, than character and confirmation. Puppy buyers want a healthy dog and one who is looking and acting like a Dobermann. In normal daily situations you can observe the dogs and get a pretty good idea how his or her character is. Breeders should have the courage to think different and choose different.

The first step should be a greater diversity of bloodlines. Step out of the box and try something different. We do not need the DV or the IDC to think and act in order to try and rescue our beloved breed.

DV or IDC is of no importance, just change course as breeder and stop following the so called leaders.

2014-03-06 19:07, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 18 positive reactions 2 negative
Basical , the selection is important for any race and it is a breeding important tool . the selection mean to select the best products or a product which have a very rare or preciouse character and to increase a entire population value .
Now let see what mean selection in dobermann breed :
-mean a trained test when very well trained dobermanns pass a non native selection
-mean much moneys $$$$$ involved
-mean restrictions for large population
-mean only few judges which have the judgement monopol
-mean the reduction of entire genepool till actual grave genepool bottle neck
-mean a sick and ill domination of show bloodliens and elimination from breeding and from many countries of large populations
-mean the actual domination of DCM, Cancer, Wobbler, Skeleton problems , torsions, imunitar system ,

How we can solve that ?
- we must to reevaluate the trial and find new tests which put accent on NATIVITY and eliminate TRAINERS from dobermann selection . Only the NATIVE character is wroted in genetical ADN , the trainers only get the $$$ and because their training change the selection RESULTS , they introduced the FALISTY in dobermann breed .
-We need new and capable judges which really know this breed .
- The Selection must be DIECTE an FREE for every dobermann with pedigree . Any normal dobermann must to pass the selection .
-The selection must be based on points system , nobody is eliminated . For mating is necessary MINIMAL 10 points from both parents . In this mode any generation average value is superior than anterior and the entire genepool is porotected .
-any dobermann with pedigree must to have pedigree . the pedigree is a borned right as borned origin document on humans . The show, working and health performance and selection score must be writed on any pedigree . All dobermanns are egual , all dobermanns have life right . The differance is wroted by their performance and scores .

2014-03-06 06:03, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 6 positive reactions 6 negative
Ivan, Wib-lis or Becht enter here to read your site ?
I saw a negative vote on my anterior post :-)

2014-03-04 05:40, IP: 46.252.74.106, from UK 6 positive reactions 2 negative
America you are right about the Z.T.P. I AGREE.

2014-03-03 18:35, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 16 positive reactions 2 negative
The ZTP is the trend and important for judges , most breeders and ..trainers ! In FALSE mode , was inoculated the ideea that a Champion must to have ZTP ,as their parents..grand parents ... no matter that he was obtained with TRAINED DOGS and does no matter that the dogs died young as happened with so numerouse Champions .
Basical the ZTP is not a bad thing , but depend how you use a selection weapon .
Similar happened with shows . Basical , the shows must be a beautiful thing , a place where friends are meet . But in reality shows are war fields and offer combustion for a entire vertical and horisontal industry. The judges make their law and by their decisions depend who died and who live . IN this mode Judges are DIRECT resonsable by what happened now in dobermann breed and because the total domination of their interests and bloodlines , the dobermann genpool and resistance is down .That are FACTS .

2014-03-03 15:29, IP: 98.113.15.45, from USA 15 positive reactions 1 negative
No one is forced to have the ZTP except the Germans! Maybe also in Italy, I do not know. But there is no other country in the world that requires a Doberman pass the German ZTP in order to have registered puppies except Germany. What is the problem? Doberman lovers in Europe should be more concerned about the change in the breed standard. ZTP is nothing.

2014-03-02 14:30, IP: 122.162.71.229, from India 4 positive reactions 2 negative
can any one refer or adivce me good old books on European Dobermann to read, i want to take my understanding and knowledge about the breed to the next step, before committing to my future companion!! Thanks..

2014-03-01 15:30, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 5 positive reactions 1 negative
USA IP
if this poor world whould have 10 persons with open mind as yours , maybe this race faith can be ore good.
Unfortunately this race is leaded and breeded by GENIALS !

2014-03-01 15:24, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 13 positive reactions 2 negative
Correct post!
In conclusion ..put the ZTP in your ASSS ! Very deep plese !

-------------------
2014-02-28 16:49, IP: 74.63.112.143, from USA 16 positive reactions 0 negative

What do we need an IDC for or even a DV.
All countries have their own kennelclubs. In most countries the kennelclubs are the ones who give the pedigrees. What we need is common sense.
With the German ZTP we are forced to have, we loose a lot of good bloodlines. Dogs with good health and old age are not used because they do not have the German ZTP... this is going on for years now.
Let us be real, a Dobermann should be regarding the breeding standard. So look like a Dobermann and act like a Dobermann.
The ZTP says nothing, this is fully trained and I wonder if those dogs who graduate with an 1A act the same way in a bad situation in daily life. What counts for me is what does a dog do in a bad situation without training, does he stand in front of me and defends me or is he behind me with his tail between his legs.

2014-03-01 06:03, IP: 88.158.24.44, from Romania 2 positive reactions 2 negative
I wonder who's hiding behind a Romanian IP to write about a problem that would concern only the Club French members. But this has become a common practise here, on chatboard, just to mislead the readers.

2014-02-28 19:15, IP: 149.210.131.21, from Romania 6 positive reactions 2 negative
Je poste ceci ici car des francais viennent lire ce chat, et de façon anonyme car je pense savoir qui se cache en France derrière Dob en Questions.
Ca fait bien longtemps que dob en question est silencieux. Depuis les élections, Motus. Peut etre que le but caché de cette entité était le même que celui qui est arrivé au poste de Président. Une des règles d'or : A qui profite le crime !

Dob en question en dénoncant des vérités à éliminer certaines personnes qui pouvaient prétendre à la place qu'il voulait. Il a cherché à amoindrir au maximum le club, détruire les bonnes intentions, éliminer les éleveurs qui tiraient le club vers le haut, pour au final se positionner en Sauveur. Il doit maintenant réunir toutes les personnes qu'il a écarté pour recréer le club et essayer d'apparaitre comme un grand rassembleur.
En y réflechissant, qui savait comment l'urne arrivait à l'assemblée. Il fallait éliminer une personne qui avait relativement bonne presse et qui aurait pu être poussé à la place du chef.
Pourquoi des prises de position contre certaines personnes qui se présentait ( ex : Flegon, ) ? car c'était un danger.
Pourquoi autant de hargne contre M D., l'ancien président ? car il fallait être sur qu'il ne se représentat pas au poste de président et le dégouté de la fonction.
Des mots assassins ( mais vrais) contre la nationale d'élevage pour montrer qu'avec lui ca sera mieux. Et vu la dernière ca ne peut que être mieux. Pour ca il fallait l'éloignée du beau site de Rambouillet et écarter les bons organisateurs.
Agir avec certains pouic pouic pour maintenir l'adage : diviser pour mieux régner. Et ils sont tous tomber dans le panneau et ont voté pour lui.
Beaucoup de choses ont été dîtes par Dob en question, qui pouvait bien être son informateur ? ou directement celui qui écrit !!! Avec un peu de recul, tout n'est que magnigance !

2014-02-28 16:54, IP: 79.11.71.61, from Italy 10 positive reactions 1 negative
Maybe when all the big chief died we can change it!

2014-02-28 16:49, IP: 74.63.112.143, from USA 19 positive reactions 1 negative
What do we need an IDC for or even a DV.
All countries have their own kennelclubs. In most countries the kennelclubs are the ones who give the pedigrees. What we need is common sense.
With the German ZTP we are forced to have, we loose a lot of good bloodlines. Dogs with good health and old age are not used because they do not have the German ZTP... this is going on for years now.
Let us be real, a Dobermann should be regarding the breeding standard. So look like a Dobermann and act like a Dobermann.
The ZTP says nothing, this is fully trained and I wonder if those dogs who graduate with an 1A act the same way in a bad situation in daily life. What counts for me is what does a dog do in a bad situation without training, does he stand in front of me and defends me or is he behind me with his tail between his legs.

ZTP and showtitles should never be the reason to use a dog for breeding. Unfortunately in todays world it is the reason. Why? It sells puppies and gives people a false idea that they are important. We must focus on health, that is the most important reason at this moment to save our breed. So overboard with all regulations and use bloodlines who are almost forgotten (with or without ZTP). Maybe, perhaps maybe we then stand a change!

2014-02-28 12:12, IP: 79.11.71.61, from Italy 0 positive reactions 1 negative
Finland
http://www.neerlandsstam.com/
please read, she was poisoned after the mating ................

2014-02-27 02:51, IP: 81.197.143.125, from Finland 1 positive reactions 2 negative
Gravin Zoe v. d. Neerlandsstamm has also been poisoned. They had just announced a new litter with her as the dam. It reads on their frontpage.
What has happened to this world? The poor dot hasn't done anything wrong.

2014-02-26 06:17, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 4 positive reactions 1 negative
And now, please coraborate that with announced standardchangement when dobermanns will be not equal and will apply the cutting ears and tail interdiction . That FALSE PRPOTECTION MEASURE invented by politicianists , in time when our dobermans died young by ills and stray dogs are euthanasied allover the world , will affect again and reduce the genepool.

2014-02-26 06:13, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 10 positive reactions 2 negative
The health problems and genetical bootle neck , incests and diversity destruction is contrar FCI proclamed rules ! The incest happened using dogs with grave problems.
But now, back than 5-6 generations , you can find only same ancestors . The actual IDC sieger in 14 generations , from 32764 ancestors only 1115 diferent names !
That in time when entire different dobermanns populations was TOTAL erased from Terra surface till NOTHING remained !

Unfortunately FCI nothing did till now because 1. they care but don't know or 2.they know but don't care .

Regarding ZTP it is not mandatory for FCI breeding . Is only a DV invention applied wrong , with trainer and in dominance by only few judges , how long only DV and only DV president which is IDC president and Judges president can decide the judges .
Now in IDC they decided to future stop the ZTP starter :dogs from parents without HD/ZTP will be eliminated . That mean 70-80 % from dobermann population .

 

« Previous page | Next page »

1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  42  43  44  45  46  47  48  49  50  51  52  53  54  55  56  57  58  59  60  61  62  63  64  65  66  67  68  69  70  71  72  73  74  75  76  77  78  79  80  81  82  83  84  85  86  87  88  89  90  91  92  93  94 

Archives ›