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All the health testing in the world is not going to help if people just keep breeding the same lines as Bob, Sue and Jenny, running to popular sires, and inbreeding on sick dogs. A dog is healthy until it is not.
This is not even touching on the fact that there are plenty doctored health tests and fake working titles out there. JMO.
Let's hear it:
All your observations and comments would be fine if we lived in
1985. Sorry that was 30 years ago and the quality of the breed has suffered due to
poor breeding, poor leadership and the acceptance of large commercial breeders.
The ban on cropping/docking did not help. You gave us a wish list and it is not going
to happen, you are far too late. Now you have to take what you can get and the getting
is not good. All the best of luck on your search.
I should have included that no dog should be a Sieger, World Champion or other top shows with out complete health results, ZTP, and IPO III, or SCH III or whatever label for top of the working field. There can still be other shows but I believe for the IDC, World champion title this should be mandatory. The last true champion I seen would have been Oskamit, he possessed all of these qualities maybe minus a few health test that he may or may not have.
Again Let's hear it :)
I understand your meaning.
In North America the term hobby breeder usually means a poor breeder
that breeds for Beer money.
Here are a few things I think would help our breed even though I am sure some would disagree but I believe would be a good starting point before dogs should be bred;
All dogs should have minimum health test of following:
- HD (Rating of B good or higher)
- vWD (no affected)
- Eyes (CERF)
- Holter (When of Age)
- Welcome to add any I missed
Should not be bred before 3 years of Age (and then limited breeding )
Should have some sort of character test (ZTP, BH, CGC, etc..)
Should be completely with in the standard as judged (No exceptions)
Breeders should be limited on the amount of litters can produce & register in a year
Cropping and Docking should be legal if done by a vet (compromise)
This is what I believe will help save the breed, I know first hand test are expensive but also would help keep down mass breeding's and cannot be a bad thing even if some believe that all of them are not necessary.
Let's hear it :)
USA - what I call a hobby-breeder is a breeder who is not breeding dogs for a living.
I understand and meant no offense to you.
USA - what I call a hobby-breeder is a breeder who is not breeding dogs for a living.
You will find many well known honest breeders there.
There are people who are not even hobby breeders but want good dogs and do complete health testing on all my dogs and do all the research on puppy's I buy. I have not bred any of my dogs but if I choose to so, I will. I pay very good money for my dogs which are my pets and I occasionally train at a local sport club or in my yard. I have a friend who is professional trainer and he is training the one I believe is worth training. The others are used in a program I run. My point being that all dogs do not have to do shows and have titles to be good dogs nor do they have to be bred if the buyer does not want to do it and just want town a good dog. I have been pretty lucky with the ones I have purchased and they were not from big name kennels. I purchased the lines I like from people who had a fair price and were very friendly and helpful with not only their dogs but gave me a lot of if on other dogs I inquired about. There are a lot of good breeders out there. Instead of keep bringing up all of the bad breeders, recommend some good ones when someone comes on here looking for some help. Is this not what this forum is for?
Most hobby breeders don't do much with their Dobermanns.
There is a very big difference between a hobby breeder and a
sport dog breeder Most hobby breeders don't know where to go for
reasearch on a stud dog, they just use what is close. Titles mean nothing to
a hobby breeder, they don't bother to title or health test because breeding is just
a hobby, nothing more so why bother. Buy from a hobby breeder and you buy into health problems and poor menatality. A sport/show dog breeder will invest a lot into a breeding and they are interested in placing
their litters into the very best homes.
The very good Dobermann breeders in America send their pups out with
limited registration. This done to protect the breeders good name. Several years ago a
Albino Dobermann breeder sent a person to a well known breeder to buy a IPO dog. This
person was informed about the sport and bought a bitch pup. A few years later the bitch whelped a
litter from an Albino male and the litter was advertised as European. The breeder found that
the Albino breeder had tricked them into selling. The Albino breeder made it a big thing that
she had good European blood in her Albino line. There are also coat tail breeders that buy quality
and use it with poor quality blood lines in a effort to help sell their litters. All this is common
in America. The good breeders register their litters with limited AKC restrictions. This means no breeding untill the dog is titled. This is the only way to combat cheaters looking for strong healthy quality pups.
If you lived in a country with these kind of problems, you would do the same thing.
2014-11-20 01:09, IP: 22.214.171.124, from United States 1 positive reactions 0 negative
Why are you limiting your search to the East Coast of America?
I can nane a few breeders that are using strong healthy Western
European blood lines but if you are just looking for a pet these
people can not help you.
I also would like to know who these breeders are supposed to be, because when I decided to switch to Euros (12 years ago) I could not find a good one which is why I buy my puppies directly from overseas because most breeders here think they can sell a dog and tell you what you can or cannot do with the dog i.e. limited registration or charge way to much for the puppy's, I can import my own for what they charge for a puppy here with all rights. Then some of them are cross breeding (Euro & American) which is their right, I am one who do not like this. Others are breeding Dobermann's way out of standard i.e. Supersized and a lot of them lie about the titles their dogs have and even misrepresent the lines they come from. SO, I would very much like to know which Kennels you are talking about. The only good kennel I know of is Aldecrest which I plan to use in the near future and they plan their litters carefully.
@Gino - here is link http://www.adlercrest-dobermanns.com/
Regardless of whether (more like when) breeders will be able to sell their puppies again, the fact is that even more genetic diversity will be lost, on top of what is currently happening due to overuse of popular sires... not a good thing.
I agree with denmark, we breed dogs as a hobby not a business, but this is both true for dogs with cropped ears or without.
relavimento to germany ... no comment should be a tough nasi (the last one)
you all can say what you want:
from january 1st 2015 cropping and docking will be forbidden...without any expection.
may be my dear "dobermannlovers" and "breeders" you accept this or you are going to breed chickens in future...much fun.
I am sorry - of cource I mean that I am only telling you how things are.....
I do not distespect you Crostia - I am not telling you how things are in my country and I pretty sure that I speak for whole Scandinavia when I say what I say. You must understand that in our countries we have been through all this for years ago and when we had the Ban in our countries our sell of puppies went down as well. But we are rising now and can sell our puppies - that is a fact - why should I lie about that? And I am sure that the same will happen in your countries. In Denmark nobody is able to live from Selling puppies - it is only a hobby. I know that in some countries in eastern Europe some breeders are breeding for a living and I understand they are worried. But in my opinion dog-breeding should always only be a hobby....
Denmark, WHO and WHAT give you the right to disrespect me on national bases???
I don't know if you even know where I live, but to get your vision clearer in my country cropping and docking is banned for 2 years now, and nobody can sell their pupps undocked.
It's a fact!
So, since we all have internet and we're one big village, I had the oportunity to speak to lots of breeders worldwide and exchange our experiances and knowlege so I got lots of info from the first hand. And we see how many pupps stays with breeders if they are undocked.
It's also the fact that atleast 70% of the people are not interested for dog shows and breeding and I don't think that nobody have the right to blame that people that don't want undocked dogs, it's their right to choose! If they cant have the oportunity to choose what they like in this breed they will choose another, simple as that.
Thank you Serbia - I am very good at understanding your language.
Crotia - who do you think knows best about whats going on i Denmark - you or me? I know that in Denmark good breeders can sell all their puppies and have waiting lists too. These breeders cares about healthtesting the dogs, they make workingresults and showresults too. They can sell the puppies to good buyers that also will test and work and show the dogs. Of cource there are people who dont care about work and show and only want a dog for pet - they buy a cropped dog in one of your countries where you still crop and Dock.
I realize that many people do not like to see cropped ears, so do not cut. As many people do plastic surgery and not others. My opinion is this, to move forward with a ban on cutting the race will lose many admirers.
Of course we are all sad about the new standard change, but more so those that can still crop and dock and live off the backs of there females, at the moment the demand for a cropped puppy is high because of the standard change, when it comes in who will want a substandard puppy from the eastern block when they can get a great puppy from most other breeders in Europe with correct and legal paperwork, it will be time for them to change there breeds as no one will want there puppy's which will be good for the breed and for there females who are and have been over bred, they will have to change breeds or they may find themselves having to get a proper job!!!!!!
and Denmark...cropped and docked is not cosmetic,dobermann must be cropped and docked becouse of WORK and BECOUSE HE MADE TO BE CROPPED AND DOCKED,you can not cropped so f*** rest of the world,NO....fuck you....hunting doberman killing the dobermann....
NATURAL DOBERMANN IS CROPPED AND DOCKED......uncropped and undocked is new hunting dogs,not dobermann....dobermann is working dog and he must be cropped and docked....Luis Dobermann...and of story....
Denmark, are you living in some other world that the rest of us?
Even in your own country breeders are strugling with selling their pupps. Most of the falks from Scandinavia and also Germany still buys where they can get cropped pupps.
Not that I have anything against natural dogs, some of my dogs are natural and I like them nothing less than cropped but that are facts and statistics, but maybe your wishfull thinking want's to be diferent!
Croatia - who says that it is a problem to sell puppies with natural ears and tail? People that want to do something in the future with the dogs dont want them to be cropped and docked.... And a lot of people dont like the thougt of cutting in a dog for cosmetic reasons. I think you are wrong and what you say is only wishful thinking!
I do not think that we should impose that the dog should have cropped ears, we should let people choose. Why is someone who likes the dog with ears cropped ears can not be a dobermann lover?
For me the Dobermann breeder is a dobermann lover, you can not create without love. Whenever the Germans with their supposed moral superiridade, who are you to know whether or not I like the race.
Germany, it has nothing to do with LOVING the breed!
No normal and inteligent person will continue breeding if he cant place their pupps to the new owners, wich actually happens with uncropped and undocked dogs.
Just stop pretending it's not happening just because all of you germans are frustrated since cropping is long time forbidden in your country !
Mexico. In countries that already have a ban in reducing the number of copies decreased 50-60%. I am breeder for 10 years, I am seriously thinking devote myself to another race.
....may be you are a dobermann-breeder, for sure NOT a dobermann-Lover !!!
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