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Tuesday, 30th May 2017. All times are CET (Central European Time)

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2014-11-30 13:48, IP: 178.149.92.195, from Serbia 1 positive reactions 2 negative
ZTP judge Inge Eberstaller

2014-11-30 10:11, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 4 positive reactions 3 negative
Hello Serbia, glad if you understood . The showlines are damned , their genetic is for forever destroyed , you will see that. Is impossible for them to solve their health problems . They are too numerouse and their genetic is based too much in ill trend showlines .Is a genetical imposibility .
then ,
Make a circle around last resistance bloodlines and go ahead and stay out ! Nobody can resist .

If showlines breeders will understand that and will accept to protect and use that few last rare resistance bloodlines maybe will be a chance . If them will be ahead blind slaves of showsystem , their game will be over vey soon. The final is inevitable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0TBiQmXm0E

All the best .

2014-11-30 08:42, IP: 93.134.11.36, from Germany 2 positive reactions 1 negative
tu usa:

there are some more ztp-judges around:

in germany: wiblishauser, becht, daube, hoppe, killmaier (in near future köhler)
in taly: pezzano
in spain: boulo

...these are the official ztp-judges!!!


workingtitles are given only from pezzano only in italy and from boulo only in spain.
in germany there are different judges for workingtitles like friedrich, cohnen, hecker.


best regards

2014-11-30 06:20, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 2 positive reactions 0 negative
ZTP:
Please go to The Dobermann Insider and look for 8Jan12
This will give you a freat deal of information on the ZTP.

2014-11-30 00:02, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 1 positive reactions 2 negative
Are Mr. Pezzano , Mr. Becht, and Mr. Wiblishauser the only judges for ZTP, etc in Europe because every competition I read they say seem to be the judges. I know the show world revolves around then but is it true for the working titles also? Just curious.

2014-11-29 21:23, IP: 130.180.250.202, from Serbia 6 positive reactions 4 negative
Hi WA and thanks for fast reply!

Yes it would be great to have this combination: ataraxie's big ben x base v. Hexenzauber
Just look at this virtual mating calculation...
I like this pedigree very much.



Ascendents count
Total count of known ascendants (over 8 generations : max=510) 508
Count of distinct known ascendants (over 8 generations) 250
Explanation

For any animal out of Sire and Dam :
Coefficient of Inbreeding (this value is low) 8.0556%




Partial inbreeding due to Jano v. Bayern (DZB 114375) 3.413%
Partial inbreeding due to Cassi v. Bayern 1.859%
Partial inbreeding due to Bingo v. Ellendonk 0.531%
Partial inbreeding due to Ali v. Langenhorst 0.216%
Partial inbreeding due to Satan v. Ellendonk 0.193%
Partial inbreeding due to Cona v. Niederkassel 0.149%
Partial inbreeding due to Heidi v. Bayern 0.147%
Partial inbreeding due to Vello v. Fürstenfeld 0.139%
Partial inbreeding due to Jago v. Beelen 0.121%
Partial inbreeding due to Gina v.d. Weyermühle 0.112%
Partial inbreeding due to Amor v.d. Weyermühle 0.111%
Partial inbreeding due to Graaf Quirinus v. Neerlands Stam (NHSB 1550587)

2014-11-29 20:43, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 8 positive reactions 4 negative
Only few dobermans have real genetic value today . All the rest is the same ill show shit but very profitable for dobermann market . In reality they are surrogates , their big head, big bones , round eyes and shit character prove that they are surrogates . Real Dobermanns are different .
If genials will accept to introduce Ataraxie Big Ben in their show bloodlines , they can echilibrate the show lines genetic . In 3 generations , we can have a smart and beautiful echilibrate dobermann . But show breeders wil do not accept . I will say why . Becaue without ring beauty , they are impotents . And they do not accept to lost show characters because is desastruouse for their pokets . They preffer to sacrificate dobermann breed . Because they are only little slaves of shit show system . Nothing more .
They are genials which killed the dobermann breed after they killed step by step entire longevive dobermann population .

Bye .

2014-11-29 20:32, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 5 positive reactions 4 negative
Hello Serbia ,

Bayern is one of the last longevive working bloodline . This line is based on Czilla v. Wehrwinkel who was Rene Weinberge daughter . Majority Bayern dogs was 10-13 years longevive ; Jano lived 13 .

This female , basical started from Assy v. Eichenhain & Hella V Forell Mitocondrial DNA dubled by Weyermühle and Mooreiche bloodines.
Paternal Vasko del Pais Baviera mix pure and original Bayern bloodline with Quirinus , des Landrys and de Covalta . Unfortunately the last Bayern dobermanns losted their genetical purity and was mixed with Show lines in working version . One of the last pure Bayern and extremly valorouse is Jano . I searched all around a pure stud from him but I do not find .

One of the best descendant of Jano is Ataraxie Big Ben the absolute working champion .
His value result from his rare enetic but breeders are blind and preffer again and again and again and again and again and again and again their occidental ill shit .

2014-11-29 20:00, IP: 130.180.250.202, from Serbia 5 positive reactions 3 negative
2014-11-27 22:33, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 4 positive reactions 4 negative

Genials , all of you bloodlines are the same , back than 4 generations again and again the same ,
Except few dobermanns from working lines which still are longevive (majority working have problems too) all of the rest longevive was destroyed by all of you geniality !




Hi WA,

What do you think regarding this female?
http://www.dobermannpedigrees.nl/modules/pedigree/pedigree.php?pedid=233916
Do you like her pedigree and line she represents?
She should be mated soon:
http://www.vom-hexenzauber.de/html/d-wurf.html

I'm waiting to see who will be a father tof this litter...

2014-11-29 11:40, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 7 positive reactions 2 negative
No need to back because never I left the dobermann , always dobermanns was and will remain in my hearth.
I ask FREEDOM , HEALTH and JUSTICE for this breed .
------------------

2014-11-28 01:58, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 2 positive reactions 1 negative

Good to have you back :)

2014-11-28 15:49, IP: 189.249.56.54, from Mexico 1 positive reactions 1 negative
Thank you Bryant, information is what we, the newies need, I mean, I am not searching sugar or anything like that but good objetive information. And most of you are objective and try to inform, but all the effort loses in a lot of, IMO, pointless fights. As I said what is going to happen is going to happen, so strategies to keep the breed up in people oppinion, and maybe stronger relations between honest breeders is what is needed.
And yes if I had the knowledge, the contacts, and the resourses at least I would do something

2014-11-28 01:58, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 2 positive reactions 1 negative
2014-11-27 22:15, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania

Good to have you back :)

2014-11-27 22:39, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 0 positive reactions 2 negative
No, You are not . Not yet .
Bye for moment :-)

2014-11-27 22:37, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 2 positive reactions 3 negative
Sorry because I'm furiouse and I shaked again your system !

Wake up , change the slaves and masters of this system , change the old mentalities and persons .
Are you capable to say : FREEEDOMMM ! ?

2014-11-27 22:33, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 4 positive reactions 4 negative
Genials , all of you bloodlines are the same , back than 4 generations again and again the same ,
Except few dobermanns from working lines which still are longevive (majority working have problems too) all of the rest longevive was destroyed by all of you geniality !

Genials This race have no future because you destroyed his right past !
Now every new generations is a MATHEMATICAL PROGRESION of same again and again ill bloodlines and is impossible to stop that !
The last healtly blooodlines are covered and killed in your shit show sysem or , if them are mixed , all are infected and endure all your inimaginable ilnesses .

This is the reality , the instopable circle of death created by yours masters !
All of you are PRISONIERS of this system and majority of you preffer to be SLAVES of sytem and to sacrificate this noble race for your ilusory succes !


The game for this race , unforunately is almost over . All of you, members and slaves of this system have on conscience MISERABLE DEATHS of HUNDREDTH AND HUNDREDTHS of dobermanns !

2014-11-27 22:23, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 4 positive reactions 2 negative
This is the best joke from my last week ! You make my night happy !

-----------------
2014-11-25 18:44, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 1 positive reactions 0 negative
Go to
using healthy Western European blood lines.

2014-11-27 22:15, IP: 95.76.206.187, from Romania 7 positive reactions 3 negative
You are blind ? The End of this race alreadu happened , this race is in agony by long time and criminals people still lead this race .

The dobermann was a original race , now is a great dane surrogate fully by cancer and stomachal torsions and molosoidal skeleton problems .
Dobermann was 15 years longevive race , now is a ill race which died at 1-2 3 or 7 years , who survive 10 is exceptional
The original dobermann with original head you can see only in pictures and in statues in Germany , now dobermann is a BIGGGG idiot with round eyes which make peee when see a MIAUUUU pussicat , a idiot with ROUNDD SKULLL promoted in showrings toward high levels .
This CANCEROUSE occidental shit was promoted again and again , same ill genetic all around .

This is the PENIS OF TRUTH and I introduced him in mouths of criminals which destroyed this race !

I'm last Weinberge Avartar ,by 4 years I stopped to breed this cancerouse DCM-ist surrogates . But I am furiouse and I waiting the moment of payment !


----------------
2014-11-24 17:13, IP: 189.180.37.28, from Mexico 1 positive reactions 4 negative
People, really you sound like you are giving up your "beloved breed" and is kind of annoying. We need to seriously stop complaining and beginn to work, what is going to happen is going to happen no matter what, so instead of giving up -which by the way will be the cause of the end of the dobermann

2014-11-27 20:59, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 1 positive reactions 0 negative
It does not take much research to know that even the ancient breeds are not the same as they were created. All Breeds have been pretty much Man-Made or Altered for the past 150 years or so.

This is sad but true :(

2014-11-27 19:04, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 0 positive reactions 1 negative
Some of the GSD clubs are closed to Dobermanns.

2014-11-27 18:30, IP: 130.76.96.144, from United States 1 positive reactions 1 negative
Sounds to me like you are just repeating what you have heard others say. I know of many Dobermans that work in different IPO clubs across America, USCA, DVG, and UDC. Certainly there is variation, but if the dog shows aptitude and the owner shows a proper level of understanding and committment, there are few clubs that will not take a Doberman(n).

2014-11-27 17:53, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 1 positive reactions 1 negative
I was talking about the American Show Dog People.
There are very few IPO Dobermann people that train to title in North America.
Some IPO clubs will not take a Dobermann.

2014-11-27 14:19, IP: 130.76.96.144, from United States 3 positive reactions 0 negative
2014-11-26 23:16, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 0 positive reactions 4 negative

I am going to say this Dobermanns are a MAN created breed and so no matter what your religious belief any thing MAN does is going to be SERIOUSLY flawed.
--------------------------------

It does not take much research to know that even the ancient breeds are not the same as they were created. All Breeds have been pretty much Man-Made or Altered for the past 150 years or so.

2014-11-27 14:15, IP: 130.76.96.144, from United States 4 positive reactions 1 negative
You sell the American breeders way short. There are good and bad breeders everywhere.

2014-11-27 05:16, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 2 positive reactions 1 negative
There are flaws in every Dobermann. Good breeders recognize the flaws in their lines
and strive to improve with each breeding. Knowing how to read pedigrees and actually
see the breeding partners is escentual. Europeans go to shows and IPO trials. American
look at photoShop photos in Dobermann magazines.

2014-11-26 23:16, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 0 positive reactions 4 negative
I am going to say this Dobermanns are a MAN created breed and so no matter what your religious belief any thing MAN does is going to be SERIOUSLY flawed.

2014-11-26 23:06, IP: 50.4.44.128, from United States 2 positive reactions 1 negative
2 positive reactions 0 negative

Gallespie
I gave you information on good Western European breeders
in North America. Have you contacted any of them or do you need your hand held
and walked through the research process????

Thank you for that, I have owned Dobermanns for 30 years and really do not need any help. I was just trying to get someone to step up and say something positive about any breeder. I all ready know who I like and will deal with the consequences of my choices but when people like the person from Mexico which I assume is new to the breed ask a question about the Dobermann, everything should not be negative, or our breed willrely die, if any new person reads the stuff on here. I have been on here since it started and do let people opinions scare me away from the breed. I am not happy abut the crop /dock rule but it will not scare me away because I live in U.S. and if I decide to breed I can do both. So. I was not asking for myself but for future Dobermann owners. The point I was making is this should not only be a negative forum but if someone comes on here and ask for information, give it to them even if it is your own opinion. Every one on here owns a Dobermann and we all know the bad things about the race, but there are a lot of good things about the race. Take it from me, I am a black man that lives in the U.S. so I know all the bad things that can be said about a race and until I joined the military and travel extensively in Europe I found out that not all people think that way, if most people did not like me it was because of me. (Sometimes I was a asshole but it was not because I was black, it was more because I was an American who thought we ruled the world.) Life is about choices, so lets not turn new prospective Dobermann owners away from a noble Breed. Everything is not about showing or working, they make great companions that I plan to own one or more until I die.

One more thing my last name is Gillespie, first name Bryant. I do not have to hide anything :)

2014-11-26 23:01, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 4 positive reactions 0 negative
Germany:
The 50% mortality rate has been discussed in the past and I feel the number
is accurate. I am not a vet but I do read and talk with many people involved with
the race. My question to you is, where will we be next year and the following years to come.
Poor breeding and over use of a few infected males will finally reduce the healthy Gene pool to
a low number where the race can not recover.
It all has come down to a few breeders that have healthy Dobermanns but they are keeping the litters
close by for future use.

2014-11-26 20:26, IP: 84.155.248.136, from Germany 4 positive reactions 1 negative
But you can also name other breeders around the world - without problems...

I search for it but i think this race is damaged... :-(

2014-11-26 20:22, IP: 84.155.248.136, from Germany 3 positive reactions 0 negative
I don't say any word about any breeder but fact EVERY line has problems - US and Euro.
More than 50 % will die of cardio - US and Euro - please name only one breeder - without cardio
in the last second generations (many carrier and affected)... I don't know one in US and Europe...

2014-11-26 19:39, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States 2 positive reactions 0 negative
Gallespie
I gave you information on good Western European breeders
in North America. Have you contacted any of them or do you need your hand held
and walked through the research process????

 

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