2012-03-21 11:39, IP: 176.24.97.76, from United Kingdom

5 positive reactions         2 negative

Hi Rob,

With regards to your question about Mikjulora Dobermanns, I have purchased 2 dogs from this breeder. My dogs are healthy, have great confirmation, are well balanced, excel in work and are a great addition to my family.

Owner of 2 Mikjulora Dobes.

2012-03-21 02:36, IP: 2.218.203.82, from United Kingdom

2 positive reactions         1 negative

hi
after information on mikjulora dobermanns in the uk and a breeder in slovenia selo 1329207 prosenjakovci
any help would be gratefully received
many thanks
rob

2012-03-18 07:11, IP: 67.210.97.252, from United States

5 positive reactions         5 negative

The actual genepool is majority maded by top breeders and their trend lines: Citone , Renewal , Tahi Reme, Nemesis , and so on... . All of them represent the continuity of other anterior trend blooddlines Franckenhorst via Royal, Quirinus, Gamon , Jivago and so on.... All of them represent the continuity of Forell .
If today all the roads went to Rome, if we search back , all roads went to Forell.
But something is missing here , Forell was not molosoidal and (explain a wrong selection) can't explain actual race molosoidation and genepool deviation from original stamp .

Keep in mind that some voices accouse the genetical fraud .

2012-03-18 06:47, IP: 67.210.97.252, from United States

4 positive reactions         2 negative

Indider don't contested DCM presance in dobermann race, he contest the percentage . And this is right .
Because low level of informations , we don't know the real reasons in majority death cases . We can only supose .
In reality many of them died because CANCER, TORSIONS or are put to sleep because others sorrows .
But DCM is the most important disease of dobermann breed and all happened because CRIMINAL TREND LINES ARE SHOW PROMOTED by CRIMINAL TOP BREEDERS AND JUDGES .


--------------------
2012-03-17 23:26 • IP: 93.200.156.248 • from Germany
0 positive reactions 0 negative


Yes Wiblishauser and dobermann insider said/wrote that.

2012-03-17 23:30, IP: 93.200.156.248, from Germany

2 positive reactions         1 negative

Read the blog - and also the owners of dogs which died of DCM (most have a result from cardio specialist) spread rumours:

http://inside-dobermann.blogspot.de/2012/01/d-ont-c-ondemm-m-e.html

2012-03-17 23:26, IP: 93.200.156.248, from Germany

2 positive reactions         2 negative

Yes Wiblishauser and dobermann insider said/wrote that.

2012-03-17 18:20, IP: 67.210.97.252, from United States

8 positive reactions         1 negative

who said that dobermann have not health problems , especial dcm, is criminal and idiot.
inclusive wiblishauser if he said that .

2012-03-16 20:27, IP: 93.200.152.74, from Germany

4 positive reactions         9 negative

@ Dobermann Insider

you wrote that the Dobermann has no problems with heart releated problems??? like DCM

Very funny - the same said Wiblishauser. Your side is only for people with IQ under 80 percent. I think you are a breeder and you don't fit into the BREEDING SYSTEM because you made only one MISTAKE.

Your blog is like Mr. Wiblishauser :-)

2012-03-16 09:56, IP: 84.194.234.178, from Belgium

1 positive reactions         4 negative

Hello Jelena,

As i am rather ignorent regardig new (for others already old) technologie, please explain me how to enter your chatboard. I heard that i could find the venue of the next IDC in Italy, Lago di Tesero?

2012-03-14 07:19, IP: 79.7.74.177, from Italy

3 positive reactions         1 negative

2012-03-13 21:44 • IP: 188.143.34.233 • from Hungary

please tell me about the law for docking and cropping in hungary, is true that in few month you can't crop and dock because the law is changed?

2012-03-13 23:16, IP: 62.231.93.196, from Romania

8 positive reactions         4 negative

No,think moved to insider

2012-03-13 21:44, IP: 188.143.34.233, from Hungary

1 positive reactions         1 negative

Is there anyone here?

2012-03-12 20:12, IP: 79.7.74.177, from Italy

4 positive reactions         6 negative

IDC in Italy...........................

GIORNATE IDC 2012


14 - 15 - 16 Settembre 2012 "Lago di Tesero“ Tesero (TN)

......

Da più di 50 anni a Lago di Tesero vengono allestite le piste per praticare questa disciplina. Al Centro del Fondo di Lago di Tesero si sono disputati con successo i campionati del Mondo del 1991 e del 2003 oltre a numerosissime gare di coppa del Mondo di sci di fondo e combinata nordica, gare nazionali e gare per i più giovani.

Da sempre traguardo intermedio della Marcialonga, ospita il Trofeo Topolino, la Minimarcialonga; ha ospitato i campionati mondiali Lowlander, il "Trofeo delle 6 Nazioni", numerose edizioni dei campionati italiani assoluti e giovanili ed ora sarà anche la location per il nostro IDC 2012



Info & Prenotazioni
Booking Centre

Azienda per il Turismo della Valle di Fiemme
Via Fratelli Bronzetti, 60
38033 Cavalese (TN)
Tel. 39 0462 341419 - Fax 39 0462 231621

booking@visitfiemme.it www.visitfiemme.it

2012-03-07 09:46, IP: 79.40.75.230, from Italy

2 positive reactions         2 negative

FROM FCI!!!!


FCI Model Standard
(First Model Standard FCI: General Assembly
Jerusalem 28-29 June 1987, revised GC Vienna July 2009)
The model standard is proposed as a frame for any new or revised standard in the FCI. The
experts of the breed will choose the items they think fit and observe the order of the model.
The text should reflect the ideal picture and true type of the breed. Features that are
distinctly opposed to ideal type should be, in order of degree, under FAULTS and SEVERE
FAULTS. Features that are untypical, anomalies or non acceptable behaviour are
DISQUALIFYING FAULTS.
In case of translation, always indicate the name of the breed in the original language
between brackets under the name of the translated name in question, the name of the
translator (s) and the date of the publication of the translation.
A breed standard is:
A document which is a methodical deion of the archetype of a breed.
A document which only describes what can be assessed by the human eye.
""""""""A document which advises against surgical procedure. “Wording asking for surgery will
be rejected in any FCI standard” (General Committee, Dortmund 2010).""""""""""""""""""
A document which is used by breeders and specialty show judges to assess that the
pedigree dog:
- has a temperament that allows it to be examined;
- has correct breed type;
- has sound movement;
A blue print for correct breed type, as well as the tool to use when assessing the outcome of
pedigree dog breeding.
00.00.0000 /FR/EN/DE/ES: date when a translation into French, English, German or Spanish
is published by the FCI Office.
FCI-Standard Nr: 000 Number corresponding to the FCI Nomenclature of Dog Breeds
BREED NAME IN ENGLISH
(Breed name in the country of origin)
Illustration on front cover
Drawing or photo of the breed to illustrate it (body head)
To be provided by: country of origin/patronage/development of the breed
If 1 picture: This illustration does not necessarily show the ideal example of the breed.
If 2 pictures: These illustrations do not necessarily show the ideal example of the breed.
(obligatory phrase in every standard) (General Committee, Dortmund 2010).
FCI St.N° – Date when a translation into French, English, German or Spanish is published by
the FCI Office.
TRANSLATION: Name of translator(s). Official authentic language (FR/EN/DE/SP) is
chosen by the country of origin and is indicated between brackets
ORIGIN: If required name of the country of patronage or development.
DATE OF PUBLICATION OF THE OFFICIAL VALID STANDARD: 00/00/0000. Date of
the meeting when the FCI General Committee approved the standard.
UTILIZATION: What the breed is - or has been used for.
FCI-CLASSIFICATION: Indicate group and section, subject to a working trial or not.
BRIEF HISTORICAL SUMMARY: Preferably not more than 12-15 lines and of such
interest as to understand the breed better (General Committee, Luxemburg 2009).
GENERAL APPEARANCE: Text must never include anomalies as breed features, nor
exaggerations resulting in a risk for health.
IMPORTANT PROPORTIONS: Length of body/Height at withers. Depth of chest/Height
at withers. Length of muzzle/Length of head.
(Length of body: measured from point of shoulder to point of buttock).
BEHAVIOUR/TEMPERAMENT: Text must not state aggressiveness / acute wariness of
people or severe aloofness as a breed feature. Breeds must behave calmly and not present
any threat to the judge or to any person or dog in public areas.
HEAD
CRANIAL REGION: Shape of skull, direction of axes of skull and muzzle, upper outline.
Skull: Width of skull, shape of superciliary ridges, frontal indentation of furrow, occipital
protuberance.
Stop: Degree.
FCI St.N° – Date when a translation into French, English, German or Spanish is published by
the FCI Office.
FACIAL REGION:
Nose: Form, size, colour. Brachycephalic breeds have a general clause (General Committee,
Luxemburg 2009) that reads: “Well opened nostrils”. The clause concerns for the time being:
Boston Terrier; Boxer; Griffon Belge; Griffon Bruxellois; Petit Brabancon; Bulldog;
Bullmastiff; Dogue de Bordeaux; French Bulldog; Japanese Chin; King Charles Spaniels;
Mastiff; Mastino Napoletano; Pekingese; Pug; St Bernard; Staffordshire Bull Terrier and Shih
Tzu.
Muzzle: Length, depth, width, profile of the nasal-bridge, shape and profile of the lower
jaw.
Lips: Shape, thickness, properties (flaccid or tight), pigmentation.
Jaws/Teeth: Shape of jaw, number and properties of teeth, position of the incisor teeth,
bite (scissors or pincer bite), over- or under-shot mouth.
Cheeks: Shape and aspect.
Eyes: Size, form, colour, setting, expression, direction of palpebral aperture, pigmentation
of eye rims. Text must never contain exaggerated size.
Ears: Set, carriage, shape, size, (length-width).
NECK: Upper line, length, shape, musculature, skin (tight, flaccid, dewlap).
BODY:
Top line: As a whole.
Withers: Properties, set on of neck
Back: Contour of backline, musculature, ratio of length between back and loin.
Loin: Length, width, musculature.
Croup: Outline, obliquity (direction), length, width, musculature.
Chest: Length, width, depth of brisket, spring of ribs, fore chest.
Underline and belly: Contour of underline, shape of belly and flanks.
TAIL: Set on, shape, length, thickness, hair, carriage at rest and in movement, deion of
the natural tail.
LIMBS
FOREQUARTERS:
General appearance: Forelegs seen from the front and from the side, proportions
between different parts of body and forequarters.
Shoulder: Length, obliquity, musculature, layback of shoulders (angle of scapula-humeral
joint).
Upper arm: (Arm) length, axis and musculature.
Elbow: Position, angle of the elbow.
FCI St.N° – Date when a translation into French, English, German or Spanish is published by
the FCI Office.
Forearm: Length, musculature, bone (quality, shape).
Carpus (Wrist): Width, thickness.
Metacarpus (Pastern): Length, width, position (direction).
Forefeet: Shape, size, arching of toes, tightness, nails and pads (qualities, pigmentation).
HINDQUARTERS:
General appearance: Hindlegs seen from side and rear, proportions between different
parts of body and hindquarters.
Thigh: Length, width, musculature, position (angle of coxo-femoral joint).
Stifle (Knee): Position, angle of the stifle joint (femoro-tibial joint)
Lower thigh: Length, direction, musculature, bone (quality, shape)
Hock joint: Width, thickness, angle of the hock joint (tibio-tarsal joint).
Metatarsus (Rear pastern): Length, width, position.
Hind feet: Shape, size, arching of toes, tightness, nails and pads (qualities, pigmentation).
GAIT / MOVEMENT: Deion of movement, preferred gait.
SKIN: Thickness, laxity, characteristic wrinkles and folds, pigmentation.
COAT:
Hair: Length, texture, distribution (beard, ruff), thickness, undercoat. In case, deion of
the trimmed or clipped dog. Text never to require extreme length or thickness that can
impede the dog's mobility or well being.
Colour: Basic colour, markings and colours permissible.
SIZE AND WEIGHT:
It is recommended to have a size and weight limit in every standard in order to combat
extreme features. “Any change in the standard that is regarded as unhealthy for a particular
breed will be rejected.” (General Committee, Dortmund 2010).
Height at the withers: Males: Females:
Weight: Males: Females:
FAULTS:
Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness
with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its
effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.
For utility and hunting breeds, addition of “and its ability to perform its traditional work”.
Faults listed should be in degree of seriousness.
FCI St.N° – Date when a translation into French, English, German or Spanish is published by
the FCI Office.
SEVERE FAULTS
Faults listed should be in degree of seriousness.
DISQUALIFYING FAULTS
· Aggressive or overly shy dogs (obligatory phrase in every standard).
· Any dog clearly showing physical or behavioural abnormalities shall be
disqualified (obligatory phrase in every standard).
· Untypical specimen.
· Faults which prohibit a dog from winning any award at dog shows; wrong type of bite;
non acceptable colour; over- or undersized etc.
N.B: Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the
scrotum (this expression is obligatory in every standard).
The latest amendments are in bold characters. (obligatory phrase in every amended
standard) (General Committee, Dortmund 2010)
Illustration

2012-03-06 12:40, IP: 77.219.212.150, from Sweden

10 positive reactions         5 negative

I do not think it is the total blame of Judges - breeders whom don't let their studs to be used by other breeders just because they arn't friends with that surten breeder.

There are also breeders that will infect the whole friendship list just telling them not to let a surten other breeder not to be able to use a stud - they are as much to blame for ruin the breed!

Then you have all the breeders whom are cheating with using one stud telling is is a nother dog sired a litter, titles and health results - that is atleast as much to blame as the judges you talk about - if you do not like a judge just dont go to that show - don't by from breeders whom use inbreed dogs that is dubbleing up genes that is "known" to create health issues -

I do agree that we all have to take responcebility what the breed is facing - but also start doing the right thing for the breed!

If there is people with some sence of morality and honesty - start workning together!

2012-03-06 07:37, IP: 89.204.138.229, from Germany

8 positive reactions         2 negative

with that i agree !!! all the functonaries and all the corrupt judges who have ruined our breed should burn in hell... they have to be stopped before they ruin our breed even more

2012-03-06 05:40, IP: 67.210.97.252, from United States

9 positive reactions         2 negative

But YES,

if breeders can't establish the race health problems ussing last original stocklines , and our dobermanns will continue to die by DCM (every year more numerouse and more premature) by cancer and many other sorrows , will be necessary to find a compatible race for renew the afected genepool.
But not yet. The game is not over.

The sorrow of dobemanns is INIMAGINABLE !
Now exist evidances about destruction . Now our dobermanns died at young age .

But in first ste[ we must to change this criminal show breeding system to offer to the rest of lines the posibility to grow.

Wiblis and his pack must to go and must to pay in face of law the race destruction and sorrow.

2012-03-06 05:24, IP: 67.210.97.252, from United States

0 positive reactions         6 negative

from terra to heaven

and how will be named the new dog ? F.L.-great-dane-dobermann-bauceron ?

2012-03-04 21:09, IP: 195.93.60.42, from Europe

9 positive reactions         4 negative

from heaven to usa:

thx for the link, very interesting but not really new.
there are at least two more "races" involved but this is not the subject here.

it's clear that a race changes in 100 years. every race did this change and this is no problem for me. my problem is the selection, which did not take place in the dobermannbreed, especially not in the last 25 years.
and when i speak about selection, i mean selection on character, general bodystructure and health, not beauty.
it's much easier to breed a nice showwinner than a very good all around real dog with all basic instincts and a clear brain.
the inbreeding of the beaucerons and the later backbreeding to the dobs will rise up the genetical divesity to a very high level. this has nothing to do with "creating a new mixture".

blood is thicker than water.

best regards,
your friedrich

2012-03-04 06:06, IP: 67.210.97.252, from United States

3 positive reactions         3 negative

Dear FL Dobermann


If you think to return in this mode , maybe is more good to remain where you are .
Already dobermann is changed and some voices accouse molosoidal influences , and I think that they have right , dobermann race endured a desequilibrated selection or a fraud into molosoidal direction . This fact bringed in dobermann race molosoidal problems : dcm, cancer, displazia, bloat , big heads fully by skin , round eyes , character . That moloso-dobermanns was promoted by important breeders under high level protection.

There is a link :
http://www.doberman.gr/sunent/dobermann_genome.html

Your solution to create a new mixture is another wrong way which will do not solve the F.L.Dobermann original dobermann . Will substitute the Original for forever .

Somebody said : For make original coffe you must to use pure coffe .

Only few true dobermanns with a good health and character still exist but they are genetically isolated . Only few alone breeders still breed them .
The solution is to mix them with the best showlines dobermanns and to select a beautiful dobermann with a good health and original character .

Regards .
-------------------
2012-03-03 19:27 • IP: 195.93.60.42 • from Europe
2 positive reactions 0 negative


dear friends,

as you know i created my dobermann in former times from different types of dogs (not races).
now in present our dobermann doesn't need fresh blood, because there is no really fresh blood. at the end i have to resume, that the actully genepool is too small to recreate something really good.

so i took a very hard decision: i will search some good individuums of dobermann (males and females) with an aceptable pedigree, good health and good character and i mix them with some outstanding individuums of beauceron (french sheepdog), but only with those, who are used for daily work.

2012-03-03 20:57, IP: 209.112.248.158, from United States

4 positive reactions         1 negative

IP: 195.93.60.42 from Europe ("my name is friedrich louis dobermann, apolda, germany") :
"as you know i created my dobermann in former times from different types of dogs (not races)."

W.A:
"Anyway...Lois Dobermann has many dobermanns and females ..not only one...and not obligatory with same genetic and we don't know exactly what races he used"

Hmmm!

2012-03-03 20:20, IP: 195.93.60.42, from Europe

5 positive reactions         3 negative

my dear american friend,

instead of always "hmmmm" it would help more to tell us your opinion.

best regards,
your friedrich

2012-03-03 19:41, IP: 209.112.248.158, from United States

4 positive reactions         1 negative

"i come back with a new dobermann" ... hmmmm!

2012-03-03 19:27, IP: 195.93.60.42, from Europe

6 positive reactions         3 negative

dear friends,

as you know i created my dobermann in former times from different types of dogs (not races).
now in present our dobermann doesn't need fresh blood, because there is no really fresh blood. at the end i have to resume, that the actully genepool is too small to recreate something really good.

so i took a very hard decision: i will search some good individuums of dobermann (males and females) with an aceptable pedigree, good health and good character and i mix them with some outstanding individuums of beauceron (french sheepdog), but only with those, who are used for daily work.

than, in the first generation, a strong selection for the best dogs will start. this selection will be repeated several times with different generations of this bloodstock. inbreeding will be avoided. later, after 4 or 5 generations i will breed back to the classic dobermann with very few and well selected outstanding dobermann.

i think it will take 5 or 6 more generations, strict breedingroles and a new system in the clubs worldwide regarding shows and workingtrials.

some people think it's not possible to repeat history.
are you sure?

i come back with a new dobermann. down from haeven to earth to bring a wonderful dog to people, who are able to understand what breeding is.

best regards to all real dobermannlovers,
your friedrich

2012-03-03 16:55, IP: 209.112.248.158, from United States

4 positive reactions         1 negative

"political circle", "correct political way" hmmm!
"decide between a dobermann and a pig" hmmm!

2012-03-03 11:22, IP: 195.93.60.42, from Europe

8 positive reactions         4 negative

dear american dobermannfriend,

you said: "In my sincere opinion, there exist no resources for your returning ."

when i read your posting i think there are a lot of reasons for my retourn.
here, from heaven, i have a very good view to the earth, i see everything, all the mentioned problems of our beloved breed and much more.
i see for example the bad influence of a very special "political circle", which has too much power in the dobermannworld and they play with unfair roules.
i see judges who have problems to decide between a dobermann and a pig and i see breeder who only breed the "correct political way", because only than they will get their titles.

now i must go walking with my schnuppe,

best regards,
your friedrich ( i will come back)

2012-03-03 09:23, IP: 67.210.97.252, from United States

4 positive reactions         3 negative

Dear beloved friend FL Dobermann

Not exactly...you must to know that your dobermanns can jump...
They can jump 1 foot (0.3048 m) :-). Not more. I saw with my eyes male incapable to do that . Because their original brain and in-heads was substituted with big-heads with no brain .

Regarding your returning ....with regreat , we must to inform you , that today the ill molosus are more powerfull than your original , majority are died under 8 years. Is a incredible desaster and sorrow constructed step by step by many years , leaded at high levels .
In my sincere opinion, there exist no resources for your returning .

Then..Bye Bye dear FL Dobermann !
Few persons never will renounce and who know....maybe you will return...

2012-03-03 07:15, IP: 195.93.60.42, from Europe

10 positive reactions         3 negative

dear friends,

i know about all this problems you mentioned in the last postings.
i saw everything from heaven and a lot of my tears are fallen down on earth.
my heart hurts so much when i saw the big change of my beloved breed from a healthy and elegant real dog to an object, which cannot run and jump anymore, which has characterproblems, which has healthproblems and which is changing his look more and more in direction of the rottweilers.

i want back my origin dobermann!

everybody who fights against me gets a "kiss" on his arrogant back from my beloved schnuppe!!!

best regards,
your friedrich

2012-03-03 00:01, IP: 67.210.97.252, from United States

2 positive reactions         2 negative

Dear FL Dobermann
Your Original name was changed by long time with the name of a blind and ill molosoid dog .
Sorry...


========
2012-03-02 18:08 • IP: 195.93.60.42 • from Europe
5 positive reactions 0 negative


dear dobermannlovers!

please choose me as your new and only president for all dobermannclubs in the world.
my name is friedrich louis dobermann, apolda, germany.

Thank you in advance and best regards,
your friedrich

2012-03-02 23:42, IP: 75.23.184.186, from United States

10 positive reactions         0 negative

Mr. Dobermann:
Do you promise not to steal from club funds?
Do you promise not to put up your friends for high club office?
Do you promise to leave after 5 years?
Can you provide us with information that shows that you are qualified to hold office?
Do you have a propensity for your boys?
Is your fake wife a publisher of any dog magazine?

As you can see from the above questions that we have a problem with the current DV/IDC president and would want to avoid any new problems.