Important for those looking for puppy, breeders and owners!!

Important for those looking for puppy, breeders and owners!!

Unread postby ins0mnia » Fri May 28, 2010 11:44 pm

Are you considering to buy a puppy? READ THIS FIRST:
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A Dobermann Pinscher who has lived to age 10 or greater, or has parents who have lived to age 10 or greater, is eligible for the Longevity program.

The Longevity Certificate recognizes those Dobermanns (and their breeders!) whose ancestors demonstrate longevity.


Why is this important for YOU?
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Unfortunately the vast majority of "show breeders" in Europe are either ignorant when it comes to health issues and focus on looks, or they simply don't care and are driven by money. You as a potential new owner, will take the hit. The chances you're buying an unhealthy Dobermann are high, and by healthy it's doesn't just mean "HD-free", healthy rather means a Dobermann that will live long with you, has good bone structure, good immune system and so on.


Certified breeders: Please post your name here:)
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Certified breeders, please come forward write your website address here so that potential owners can contact you.


Uncertified breeders, please read this
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The fact that this program is sponsored by the US Dobermann club has nothing to do with Longevity and it's not a valid excuse for not obtaining the certificate.

Other objections? try me out, let's hear from you.

More information here:
http://www.dpca.org/Longevty/longevity/
Last edited by ins0mnia on Sat May 29, 2010 1:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Sat May 29, 2010 6:35 am

It is true, dobermann race need a longevity program. I think is Ok...It is not important who maded this program ( in this case US because European was not capable to create one).

BUT

If will be limited the Sieger titles only to dogs which parents and grand-parents having a Longevity certificate ,
THEN
I am couriouse who can get the Sieger TITLES or we risk to eliminate the Sieger titles :lol:
Maybe that will be more healtly for dobermann breed :idea:

Insomnia, WAKE UP, DON"T DREAM MORE !
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Unread postby Weinberge » Sat May 29, 2010 6:44 am

I think we must do that and leave politic on her way....

Maybe Insomnia have right and we must to DREAM !
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Unread postby jotunheim » Sat May 29, 2010 9:36 am

Alin - there is only ONE requirement for obtaining the DPCA longlevity Programme Certification:

- the dogs must be 10 years old
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Unread postby Weinberge » Sat May 29, 2010 7:44 pm

On this program can be registered only present old dogs or can be registered longevive past ancestors ?

There exist a recording control ? How can we know the recordings are true?
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Unread postby ins0mnia » Sun May 30, 2010 10:34 pm

Hello Valencia,

I believe any dog, over 10 years, alive or not can be registered in the database.

This program is from the American Dobermann Club, and frankly the only thing out there, since our beloved EU dobermann clubs don't have such a thing.

I see many views on the topic, no replies from breeders (except of Bitten whom according to my experience here is one of the very few serious ones about this subject). So to ya all "show breeders", keep digging your head in the sand, one day soon, we Dobermann owners and lovers are going to step up to the play.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Mon May 31, 2010 7:12 am

Do you think somebody can stop show breeders to change their mind and offer much importance to dobermann race health ? :lol:
Good joke !

Only two things can stop them. First is Russian Roulette and second to PUT WITH THEIR MOUTH DOWN , ON THE RING GROUND like they do with so many longevive beautiful blood-lines !
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Unread postby bmgillespie » Mon May 31, 2010 8:59 am

Valencia a.ka. Alin,
I love what you are doing to bring back the Romainion doberman, I myself is going to bring back the the Dobermann as what they were bred to be, here in the U.S we do not have the history as the Euro countries have. However, this discussion is extremly simple and does not involve any pedigrees, politics or what country and personal preferences, it is plain and simple. the dog has to live to be ten years old or not. it does not say what blood line or titles the dog has or what was lost or gained. One simple requirement, live 10 years or not. It does not involve the FCI or AKC or whatever else any organization has to say. There is nothing promised how long you will live, so you cannot promise how long your dogs will live. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE.
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Longevity in Dobermann

Unread postby Sonia Dobe » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:42 pm

In a study about “Morbidity and mortality in a Dutch Dobermann population born between 1993 and 1999”, (Mandinguers et al., 2006, Veterinary Record 158:226) the survival curve of the sample of 340 Dobermanns was compared to that of two other breeds: one higher risk breed (Bernese mountain dog) and a lower-risk breed (Beagle). Based on this curve the Dobermann can be regarded as a high risk breed.

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In total 81 (24%) Dobermann dogs were reported to have died and 259 (76%) were still alive. The Dobermann develop breed-specific diseases. Three diseases with a probable hereditary nature have been described. Dobermann dogs have a higher risk of developing and dying from cardiac disease, cervical spondylomyelopathy (Wobbler syndrome) and chronic hepatitis. Other diseases with a breed tendency for Dobermann dogs include behavioural problems and an increased risk for accidental injury.

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Heart failure was indicated as cause of death in 12 dogs (4 females, 8 males) and acute heart failure was suspected as the cause of sudden death in a further 6 dogs (all males). The proportional mortality for heart failure is 14.8%. This is comparable to 14.4% for a Swedish population and 9.7% in the Danish population.
16 dogs (11 males, 5 females) were euthanized because of behavioural problems, 13 because of aggression towards people and 3 because of sheep-worrying. Studies in the UK and Denmark have a much lower mortality for this category at, respectively, 3.8 % and 9.7%. The difference between the UK population, the Danish population and the Dutch population is remarkable. A possible explanation for this difference could be the difference in genotype from selection for temperament.
Tumours were found in 11 dogs: 4 had a non- specified bone tumour; 2 had a liver tumour, and various other tumour types occurred in the remainder. Old age was indicated as a reason for euthanasia in only three dogs. The proportional mortality of cancer is 13.6%.

In the canine world many people talking about the poor health of the Boxer. But scientific data give 1 year of advantage in the life expectancy above the Dobermann (Van Hagen M.A.E., 2004, Thesis, Utrecht University, Chapter 2). The integration of data for the Boxer in the survival curve of Kaplan-Meier for the Dobermann is shown in the figure below:

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Why? Collaboration between breeders of the Dutch Boxer Club and the scientists of the Utrecht University it has enabled to develop a genetic counselling program for the longevity EBV in Boxer. The effective heritability is 0.076. This means that an estimated 7.6% of the observed variation in life expectancy could be attributed to genetic differences among dogs that were passed from parents to their offspring and life expectancy can be improved by use of selective breeding applying EBV. The survival differences between the 10 best choice dogs and the 10 worst dogs progeny for ten years are 65% and 40%.

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In another study about the longevity in dogs on a populations of Rottweiller, (Cooley et al., 2003, J. of Gerontology, V58A, 12, 10078-1084), authors has been showed that the group of exceptional longevity dogs (lifetime>13.3 years) was accompanied by a significant delay in the onset of major life-threatening diseases and cancer resistence: 76% of extreme aged dogs remained free of all major diseases during the first 9 years of life. Only 19% of extreme aged dogs died of cancer versus 82% of dogs with usual longevity (lifetime 9.4 years).

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Waters et al. 2009 (Aging Cell. 8, pp752–755), have observed a female sex advantage for achieving exceptional longevity and show that lifetime ovary exposure.

Is the longevity related with the degree of inbreeding?
To my knowledge there is no scientific data for the Dobermann, however, evidence in the literature for Bernese mountain dog, Standard poodle and Rhodesian ridgeback. These data show that mortality increase with the degree of inbreeding. For instance for the Bernese mountain dog –a breed with high risk of mortality as the Dobermann- for every 1% (COI+0.01) increase in inbreeding a dog lives on average 20.6 days shorter (p=0.0007) (Inbreeding and Longevity in Bernese Mountain Dogs, Long and Bert Klei PhD). For the Standard Poodles 1% increase in inbreeding results in 1 month shorter life span (Armstrong, Longevity in the Standard Poodle, 2000). For the Rhodesian ridgeback (J. Smid, 2001, Increased Mortality in Rhodesian Ridgebacks: The Consequences of Inbreeding Depression, Department of Biology -University of Ottawa) author analyse the correlation between inbreeding coefficient and the longevity, including the cause of death:

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Do you remember anything? Look at the first table on main causes of death for Dobermann; the pattern is very similar.
Last edited by Sonia Dobe on Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Longevity in Dobermann

Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:22 am

Sonia Dobe wrote:In a study about “Morbidity and mortality in a Dutch Dobermann population born between 1993 and 1999”, (Mandinguers et al., 2006, Veterinary Record 158:226) the survival curve of the sample of 350 Dobermanns was compared to that of two other breeds: one higher risk breed (Bernese mountain dog) and a lower-risk breed (Beagle). Based on this curve the Dobermann can be regarded as a high risk breed.
Image
In total 81 (24%)



The curve is the same because the breeding system is the same. Ring sYstem. :lol:
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Re: Longevity in Dobermann

Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:27 am

Sonia Dobe wrote: The Consequences of Inbreeding Depression, Department of Biology -University of Ottawa)[/i] author analyse the correlation between inbreeding coefficient and the longevity, including the cause of death:
Image

Do you remember anything? Look at the first table on main causes of death for Dobermann; the pattern is very similar.



That is normal. The inbreeding increase the chance to inherite same genetical ill matrix from both parents/ from repetated ancestors .
Already dobermann breed is based on a very low number of ancestors.
The pyramide is inverse by long time.

The unique way to limit diseases procents is to increase the heterozigocy .
No need to be doctor doctorandum to understand that simply genetical law.
The problem is because this law is oposite with ring vanity law.

Try to sell a bloodline which is not in top and trend :lol:
Then..dear Dobermann lovers...everything have a EXPLICATION !
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Re: Longevity in Dobermann

Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:39 am

Sonia Dobe wrote:16 dogs (11 males, 5 females) were euthanized because of behavioural problems, 13 because of aggression towards people and 3 because of sheep-worrying.


They has IPO 7 ? :lol:
Waw.. why trainers don't solve their problems ? :lol:
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Unread postby Weinberge » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:33 am

We lost our time when bla bla about heterozygocy. The reality is simply.
For example, if we count 14 generations back ancestors to a medium heterozigogy bloodline , from 32764 ancestors only 1264 names are different .

No doctor doctorandum calculations,only class III general school: 3 simple rule calculation .
The truth is : the medium heterozygocy bloodline coefficient is 3.86% :idea:
THEN
Today the outcross is a good joke. :lol:

When average age decrease to 8 years and 10 + years is the maximum (that in fortunately cases), no need more comments .

In my contry except one branch , for moment :wink: NOTHING remaining from a great longevive bloodline , I have doubt that is different in other countrys ,
THEN
WE LOST OUR TIME WITH SUCCES but I hope in pleasured mode :D

P.S. Yestarday I read a good joke in some Romanian pages, something like that : 'dominant bloodlines are multiplied in the name of ..heterozygocy ' :lol: :P :P :P
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