What do you think about american Doberman?

Unread postby Sonia Dobe » Fri May 21, 2010 1:42 pm

Estimated Valencia:
Excuse me the delay of my response. I'm very busy.
Your data about consanguinity levels are very troubling. I thought it was a little more margin on the side of working lines….
Each breeder can design his strategy according to his priorities, but if there are not enough healthy dogs with different pedigrees, sooner or later we find the problems. How many moves we have left before reaching the checkmate? We need a collective strategy for the Dobermann population for a stable solution as we have comment.
In the past we could choose our priorities for the selection: conformation, working or both, Americans or Europeans, etc. In the actual “state of the art”, if we select for all we're likely to run out of anything. I repeat than now the main objective can be health. There is a Spanish fable, very similar to the discussion of Demosthenes about “the shadow of the ass”, that reflects well our situation. Two rabbits, pursued by two dogs, discuss what if the pursuers are greyhounds or hounds. In this frivolous dispute, the rabbits stop running, come the dogs and rabbits are eaten.
The truth is that all lines are contaminated, which puts us in a defensive position walking through a field strewn with mines and the survival can be the main target. Also we can’t forget the negative impact of purebred dogs and their breeders in the public opinion. AKC number of registrations dropped from 1992 and even now the AKC announced a Mixed-Breed program….
We can continue doing the analysis of how and why we have got here, but the diagnostic is clear. If you are interested in a particular subject I suggest you to open the debate. I do not know if I'll be at the level, but I'll try to cooperate within my possibilities.

A question: Do you have some data -or an opinion- about the actual average litter size for the breed, bloodlines or popular sires offspring’s? This may be an item of interest to follow the inbreeding depression, especially if we compare the results between families and in a temporal sequence. DVIN database is out and it is incomplete about birth data.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Fri May 21, 2010 3:29 pm

Sonia Dobe wrote:How many moves we have left before reaching the checkmate? We need a collective strategy for the Dobermann population for a stable solution as we have comment.



Not many moves in my opinion.
The strategy can be only ONE : FCI Breeding Startegy must to become a OBLIGATORY RULE ! !
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Unread postby jotunheim » Fri May 21, 2010 6:05 pm

You wrote:

I thought it was a little more margin on the side of working lines….

--

There is - depend on which breeder, the combination and the analyze.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Sat May 22, 2010 6:59 am

Theworking lines genetically branchs are not soo numerouse in my opinion.

Some lines from Bingo Elendonk, GAXHARDTER WALD , Icarus Kollau , WEYERMÜHLE dogs , AKIM V. VACIWEBA , some Bayern , some old Eastern mixed and some Franckenhorst mixed .
But..if you study back, the genepool is the same.

The Schoole, Easterns,Schloss Grossau inbreeded on Niky, Kiffhauser lines are losted and rare . I observe they are present on best working. They are the elements which make the differance between winners and the rest.

Study the pedigree of WEGA V. SCHLOSS GROSSAU .
Or study LEX V. KYFFHAUSER pedigree. He bring a REAL REFRESH.
Or study back the old SCHOOLE line. ACHILLES V.D. SCHOLLE. You will have surprise that line is a old PARALEL bloodline of ALEX V. KLEINWALDHEIM .

Losted OZN's . But breeders preffer to inbreed again and again in ill lines till will reduce the genepool to ZERO.

And the Market request to sell&buy only trend lines dobermanns, rings champions, again and again from same bloodlines, without ANY old, rare , historically and valuable bloodline.

Note: How , when and where can study Specialists when DVIN database still is down and they contest and information, and DVIN and other private databases. Is more simply to said : FALSE !
In this mode are created a imense desservice to dobermann breed and help INCULTURE & POLITIC.

Don't make ilussions somebody can change this system ! Somebody said well in chatboard. Must to get the working and ring command.

P.S. Jotun, your Ivar have 5 time PALASS V.D. SCHOLLE. Bayern line is based paternal in WEINBERGE and maternal in WEINBERGE + SCHOLLE.See CZILLA V. WEHRWINKEL .

PPS.Now do you understand why CILA/IVAR and no else ?
And now you understand why JANO V. BAYERN and no else ?
Now you understand why DN and no else ?
Now you understand why Citto and no else ?
Because their Purity.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Mon May 24, 2010 8:11 am

Jotun, now do you understand the game ?
Till few years that rare bloodline exist and nobody used . Now we are to one step to touch the bottom of the bag .

Majority already are mixed with Forell/Frankenhorst . That is a IMENSE error because in 3 generations , because inbreeding, this dominant lines will make bridges (one with other) and genetically will cover all. Nobody can resist.

We can not change that situation, because NO reserve !
We must to get the ring and working field control with any price !
But..to get the ring control must to endure the gentically matrix transformation. We must do that without losting rare characters !
In other case great rare bloodlines will be eliminated / infected / losted like already happened !

I search every day, by long time !
Today I write to Mr.Lerner- Bayern kennel. I search his bloodline based on Scholle and CZILLA V. WEHRWINKEL in maximum purity , without foreign insertions.

Think ! We must do few special moves ! Think ! Search !
Use your Furstenfeld ACE ! The wind of change comed , the wave is favorable ! The time already comed.
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Not a supporter of American Dobermans but...

Unread postby M.B » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:14 pm

Good Dobermann breeders in the USA with good European bloodlines and quality:

Gem-givveeon Dobermanns
www.gem-givveeon.com


Britton Farm Dobermanns
www.brittonfarmsdobermans.com

Dark Angel Athos from Britton farm Dobermanns is the BEST Doberman I have EVER SEEN
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Not supporter of American Dobermanns but...

Unread postby M.B » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:37 pm

Good Dobermann breeders in the USA with good European bloodlines and quality:

Gem-givveeon Dobermanns
www.gem-givveeon.com


Britton Farm Dobermanns
www.brittonfarmsdobermans.com

Dark Angel Athos from Britton farm Dobermanns is the BEST Doberman I have EVER SEEN
M.B
 

Unread postby anais » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:01 pm

NOTHING AMERICAN IN BRITTON S FARM

funny guy
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Unread postby clarkant » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:00 am

Anonymous wrote:American bloodline have been developed for exhibition :shock: :shock: (it`s a joke)and this affected your temperament.We can`t trust in your guard.Inclusively,some dogs
have problems,how:very shy and frightful.This is very sad :( .
Bye people and keep this great euro alive!! :wink:

i think you are right
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