We are also aware that there are a lot of historians here on the site and we are glad you know it, but there are articles on this site and others saying exactly what you ae saying and I am sure the people can read, I have and read just about every book wrote on Dobermanns or Doberman Pinchers, so I am well aware of the history as I am sure most of the other people who read this site are, so please give us some information we can use other than complaining. When I and people like me ask one of you experts, instead of giving direct answers you all say read this and read that, that is not helping. Please stop making vague references to things on the site and then be afraid to elaborate or say that you do not want to offend someone i.e like making comments on breedings on this site and not saying why you madfe the comment when questioned about it or signing your comment, which is why I put this in the forum and not on the chatboard. It will sign it for me. I welcome any comments on here or PM or email. I am not afraid of what I say, I know I do not know everything not even close about Dobermanns, that is why I ask questions and thought that is what this site is supposed to be about. If I wanted bitching and griping I would watch and read American politics and get all I need. I am here to try and learn things I do not know and do not have the luxury of flying over there to see dogs you all get to see regularly as most of us here in the U.S especially do not have.