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Unread postby gribbon » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:27 pm

At last year's Deutsche Meisterschaft DHV 2006 a superior dobermann in character,named Lennox vom Aurachgrund was second having exactly the same score with the first dog (100 98 95 293 V) and was Deutsche Vize Meisterin DHV 2006,between more than 70 malinois!!!
Lenox v.Aurachgrund (Granit v.Aurachgrund-Dorit v.d.Hollerburg)is a very interesting combination between the Bayern lines and the lines of Hertog Conan v.Manensheide,Castor v.d.Mooreiche and Ali v.Langenhorst (from castor's side and from wasko v.Binselberg's side too).
A dobermann that makes all the true fanciers of the breed proud!!
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Unread postby xendo » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:33 pm

...

the biggest number of progeny in the german studbook has graaf quirinus n.s.
wanja has not more than 30 matings, that i´m shure.

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Unread postby BasKal » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:41 pm

I will look again.
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Unread postby xendo » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:44 pm

to gribbon:

i know lennox and i know where he is trained.
he works in the group arround theo sporer, who won with his mali "butch von der bösen nachbarschaft" (in english: butch from the bad neighborhood) 3 times the german allbreed-working-champioship.

all the dogs which tare trained there are superior workingdogs (from pure workinglines), but the trainingconcept is very special. they only take people who go their way from the beginning to the end, no other way is possible, but the idear behind that is a little wonder.

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Unread postby Carlos2006 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:45 pm

BasKal wrote:I dont like Widli dictatorship either, but this is too much. Multi siegers usually are proposed for breeding.This is the meaning of big shows. But a judge cannot be a magician and know that this particular correct specimen he chooses will not get many like him.
My experience says that offspring in general is more remaracable for the difference they have from parents than for their resemplance to them.
My way is that every breeding is different and all posibilities open.Wanja has to offer a good comformation and health.Even now.

Xendo, I think that Wanja was used much more . I think that he has the biggest number of progeny in german stud book.


In the passed time, that Wiblishauser made the Sieger, with the presence in ring of Vogel Kollemberg Hensel the etc etc, this Sieger had a great value also in order for the breeding.
Today in 2007 il the people of the Dobermann in the world it is divided in two parts:
the people whom follows the Sieger di Wiblishauser , and the people whom follows the Sieger di Pezzano .
This is the truth, but will be from the just part??
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Unread postby xendo » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:46 pm

to gribbon:

i know lennox and i know where he is trained.
he works in the group arround theo sporer, who won with his mali "butch von der bösen nachbarschaft" (in english: butch from the bad neighborhood) 3 times the german allbreed-working-champioship.

all the dogs which tare trained there are superior workingdogs (from pure workinglines), but the trainingconcept is very special. they only take people who go their way from the beginning to the end, no other way is possible, but the idear behind that is a little wonder.

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Unread postby Carlos2006 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:47 pm

BasKal wrote:I dont like Widli dictatorship either, but this is too much. Multi siegers usually are proposed for breeding.This is the meaning of big shows. But a judge cannot be a magician and know that this particular correct specimen he chooses will not get many like him.
My experience says that offspring in general is more remaracable for the difference they have from parents than for their resemplance to them.
My way is that every breeding is different and all posibilities open.Wanja has to offer a good comformation and health.Even now.

Xendo, I think that Wanja was used much more . I think that he has the biggest number of progeny in german stud book.


In the passed time, that Wiblishauser made the Sieger, with the presence in ring of Vogel Kollemberg Hensel the etc etc, this Sieger had a great value also in order for the breeding.
Today in 2007 il the people of the Dobermann in the world it is divided in two parts:
the people whom follows the Sieger di Wiblishauser , and the people whom follows the Sieger di Pezzano .
This is the truth, but will be from the just part??
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Unread postby BasKal » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:56 pm

When Wanja was the unbeaten jungensieger in every big show 2 years before he was made IDC sieger, this "game" between Wibli - Pezzano didnt began yet. I am not sure for the pannel when he won IDC.
I remember over enthusiastic comments about Wanja from Italian judges before he was Sieger. Anyway, his mediocre performance in breeding is not the responsibility of the judges who made him a winner. For me is the result of the way he was managed as a breeding animal.The genes are there.
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Unread postby Carlos2006 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:16 pm

BasKal wrote:When Wanja was the unbeaten jungensieger in every big show 2 years before he was made IDC sieger, this "game" between Wibli - Pezzano didnt began yet. I am not sure for the pannel when he won IDC.
I remember over enthusiastic comments about Wanja from Italian judges before he was Sieger. Anyway, his mediocre performance in breeding is not the responsibility of the judges who made him a winner. For me is the result of the way he was managed as a breeding animal.The genes are there.


I do not believe, to Italian judges, Wania was much pleasant .
you remember, in Championship AIAD Wania no AIAD.CH.
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Unread postby BasKal » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:25 pm

Carlos all Italian judges arent the same!
Wanja was destroied in presentation at AIAD. In movement he was presented as a german sepherd. Anyway, Italian nationalism played its part.I dont remember any foreighn IDC sieger who participated to win AIAD. Not even Pezzano owned Lia Lorena V Roveline.Maby i am wrong.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:28 am

BasKal wrote:Alin, allmost all breeders making big noise in internet about themselves breed for money. All Russians included. Dont be naive. They have good result, but it was bred for profit.


Is not very corect to make this ideea. I will tell you one thing :
In this part of world some time in past we not have food for family but our dogs have food. Maybe some breed for money but majority breed for passion.
Look only in russian Gaida history : ' i feel empty without dobermann '...and she return. This say much about Eastern spirit .
http://www.zone.ee/Kingutipu

Look and what say Yacheroo kennel in puppy page:
"We are selling dobermanns only to personals who keep them like real family members. We DO NOT sell our dobes for resale, to kennels, or as yard dogs. We believe that the dobermann is that kind of breed which should not be keept separately from his/her master, and they do their best only if they can be in close contact. "
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Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:14 am

gribbon wrote:At last year's Deutsche Meisterschaft DHV 2006 a superior dobermann in character,named Lennox vom Aurachgrund was second having exactly the same score with the first dog (100 98 95 293 V) and was Deutsche Vize Meisterin DHV 2006,between more than 70 malinois!!!


This is genetical inbreeding definition of Lennox:

Name number %
_________________________________________________
ALI V. LANGENHORST | 6 | 18.750 |
WASKO V.BINSELBERG | 2 | 18.750 |
LUMP V. HAGENSTOLZ | 332 | 16.104 |
VELLO V. FÜRSTENFELD | 66 | 15.013 |
GUY'S HILO V. NORDEN STAMM | 10 | 13.672 |
BORDO V. FÜRSTENFELD | 143 | 12.715 |

CHICO V. FORELL | 48 | 11.962 |
KIRA V. ROMBERG | 61 | 11.156 |
BIENE V NIEDERKASSEL | 7 | 10.938 |
BRONCO V. ZENN | 7 | 10.938 |
JAGO V BEELEN | 14 | 10.547 |
CITTA V. FÜRSTENFELD | 94 | 10.056 |
QUECKE V. BINSELBERG | 2 | 9.375 |
ALF V. HAGENFREUND | 256 | 8.955 |
CITA GERMANIA | 79 | 8.738 |
BRYAN V. FORELL | 17 | 8.691 |
BINGO V. ELLENDONK | 6 | 8.594 |


Si clear have principal inbreeding in Furstenfeld.
Interesant, appear and 40 Weinberge dogs in his pedigree via CZILLA V. WEHRWINKEL -Renne Weinberge daugther - who is base of BAYERN line with maximum inbreeding in this line:CASSI V. BAYERN is inbreed in CZILLA by 5 time.
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Unread postby BasKal » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:50 am

Alin, always will be (few) exceptions> It means nothing> I think that all businemen-breeders loved the breed at their first steps, and I am ready to believe that they still love their personal dogs.
But their mattings seldom are not engineered for other reasons than to make money. There is also a system wich makes it easy to be a dog champion, so voila! I dont speak for Rumania. It is obvious that you make hard time for yourselves with rules for breeding strighter than nessecary at this point of time. Russians dont seem to have any rules.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:13 am

You talk and acusse in this mode because healt reason . Wait and watch how will be solve and this in next years because in future who will use only dangerouse lines ...... will have big surprise nobody will not help. :wink:

In the other hand is not elegant to blame one entire nation because few 'top' breeders play like Gods with dobermann health.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:00 pm

xendo wrote:i know lennox and i know where he is trained.
(in english: butch from the bad neighborhood) 3 times the german allbreed-working-champioship.


One important brench pedogree of Lenox comme from Czilla v. Wehrwinkel -Bayern kennel.Czilla v. Wehrwinkel was the foundation bitch of Bayern kennel.
" Over 35 years are gone and his long linebreeding is for health (no illnes in the line), workingability and longevity. "

They keep this genes with any price even they need to breed in other country. :twisted:

Czilla v. Wehrwinkel is the foundation bitch Bayern kennel used by 5 time inbreeding in Bayern foundation line.
Czilla v. Wehrwinkel father is Robby Weinberge.
Receiving info about Czilla v. Wehrwinkel mother . Comme from one Weinberge line too.

The mother is Anga v. Wehrwinkel
(Micha v. Weinberge x Duscha v. Stiftheim)

The parents of Micha v. Weinberge
(Titus Germania x Elke v. Weinberge)
The parents of Duscha v. Stiftheim (Achilles v. d. Scholle und Katja v. Stiftheim) -one Austrian old line who (from my researches) more probable comme from one inbreeding between Armin Furstenfeld and NANGA V.D. SCHOLLE .

NOW, one OZN character male: TIGER , son of Nitro Rio Bianco .
Tiger has ZTP V1A (Best ZTP at day) 24.06.2007 - now he make his IPO 3 exam and has HD-1. CAC und CACIB Res. Also he has a Holter exam.

Image

And other important for genes 4 brench:

http://www.dobermannvereniging.nl/modul ... ?id=171229

http://www.dobermannvereniging.nl/modul ... ?id=170418
http://www.dobermannvereniging.nl/modul ... ?id=158474
http://www.dobermannvereniging.nl/modul ... did=156139
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