THE BEST DOBERMANN

Top 5 kennels, top 10 males ever, top 10...

Unread postby BD » Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:15 pm

Let's refer to the living ones. And yes, Gino doesn't need any comment. I will stick to Wanja. Ok Val, only one male and only one female...
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Unread postby gribbon » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:31 pm

hello valencia!
Fantastic photo!!!!!!!!!Unique expression!!!!!!!But no similarities to diamante nero dogs!!This dog has similarities with other lines and especialy with...mmmm...it is better to send you a PM because some people missunderstand and i am not in mood for ...fights! :D
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Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:58 pm

gribbon wrote:hello valencia!
Fantastic photo!!!!!!!!!Unique expression!!!!!!!But no similarities to diamante nero dogs!!This dog has similarities with other lines and especialy with...mmmm...it is better to send you a PM because some people missunderstand and i am not in mood for ...fights! :D


I suppose you reffer at Elma Furstenfeld because Matrix is clear DN and much more une excelent type. :lol:
Yes..Elma is not very close by DN. In MY opinion is closed by....let see...
my Queena slim head and...i will make one crazy -i not have other ideea :
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Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:11 pm

..post error
Last edited by Weinberge on Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:12 pm

...post error
Last edited by Weinberge on Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:12 pm

Sorry Gribbon, Elma have Driver expresion.
You lost. :lol:
Is little strange how work my preferance and my recognition, before to see or know some things. I reffer at my prefferance to Driver from begining.
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Unread postby BasKal » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:19 pm

My opinion is that "best" means a combination of body and Character. Gino is much better than Baron in this area.
I am working on my best female living.
But best female all time is between Kalina v Norden Stamm, her mother and Lemma v Roveline.
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Unread postby Bojan » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:38 pm

Orson van Roveline and Trevovaja dama is Slavnoi Stai

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Unread postby BD » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:50 pm

After Wanja for the males, very tough decision for my best female. I will choose only from those I have seen: Izrafel Maya
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Unread postby BasKal » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:15 pm

Wanja had 317 pups from breedings between 1996-2004>In reality they must be more as he is alive. Wanja is 21st from all times, Quirinus is 3rd with 512 pups between 1990-1997. Wanja is more used than his father Zivago Wantij, and near GraafGuido v franckenhorst father of 366 pups.
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Unread postby xendo » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:34 pm

hi baskal,

i think your numbers are not correct.
wanja may be right (detlef told me last year that he had no 30 matings, so the nuber of puppies is relativ high, but possible)
quirinus has over 1000 pups, that i´m shure. i visited mr. müller half year before quirinus died.
but much more pups as quirinus has hertog alpha van le dobry, some say about 1400, some say more, i don´t know the exact number.

from which source you have these informations?

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Unread postby BasKal » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:10 pm

These are numbers only for Germany. Litters outside Germany are not counted.
Off course Quirinus had over 1000 pups worlwide.
Wanja was used in germany more than many star sires.
Only Quirinus, Hertog Conan, Ali and Graf Guido are above him in modern times.Almost all the others of the rest which are above him are older than Ali.
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Unread postby xendo » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:18 pm

...

ok baskal, i thought you mean the total number of pups. :oops:

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Unread postby BasKal » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:26 pm

My impression is that he gave puppies with better comformation of their mothers. His daughters out of german working line "ugly" females are much better than their mothers.I think that he is regarded as mediocre sire without real reason.
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Unread postby xendo » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:52 pm

after all his wins at big shows most breeder thought, wanja will bring only superpups. he made very good and excellent pups, a few really excellent.
so some people were disappointed about the general quality of the pups, but they didn´t look at the females.

as you said, and thats absolutely right, wanja mated a lot of "bad" females, especially in germany, but the result was mostly one class better than the female...so he did a good job for the breed.

but one thing i can´t understand is, that only very few breeders with topfemales came for mating. maybe the reason is, that just in this time (arround the year 2000) the trend (especially for the males) changed. more and more oversized and heavy maletypes won at the big shows...so there was no more place for a correct studdog.

a similar situation is benhur red del arco azzuro...he won some big shows, has the right blood, but in conformation he was out of fashion, means not in trend.

there is an old speaking: the trend is your friend! but this not always the best solution in dobermannbreeding.

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