Euro vWD clarification please

Euro vWD clarification please

Unread postby bmgillespie » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:42 am

Hello,
I would like to know what ratings are for vWD there.
Here in U.S we have 3 ratings : clear, carrier & affected.
I thought this was universal but I have seen "free" used over there, does that mean they are "clear" or a "carrier" because a "carrier" could be considered "free" as in not "affected". I would like to get this clear because the next girl I purchase I want her to be "clear". Here in U.S this is important thing for most of us, also to all breeders and I know I speak for a lot of us who buy your dogs, it would be noce if you listed these things :D :D :D

To add to confusion in my search of ratings i have found another listed under CAYA Jade as vWD1, I have no idea what this means :?
User avatar
bmgillespie
Esteemed member
Esteemed member
 
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:27 pm
Location: Ohio.USA

Unread postby Ronindobe » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:10 am

Hey BG! I would assume a 1 was a carrier. And you are right. Free is being used as not affected, could be carrier. Kinda deceptive :roll:
Ronindobe
Esteemed member
Esteemed member
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 7:29 pm
Location: Illinois, USA

Unread postby bilclarie » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:33 pm

I agree with you whole heartedly it is confusing either there clear or there one of the other why people can't just be honest about there dogs results I'll never know maybe the pound sign gets in the way!!!!!!!!!!
I have never seen VWD1 wouldn't know what that is but I suppose a lot of people would assume it's clear deseptive is a good word to use Ronindobe


Bilclarie
Bilclarie Dobermanns
www.bilclarie.com
Image
User avatar
bilclarie
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 50
Images: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:06 pm
Location: France

Unread postby keyala » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:29 pm

The answer to your question is this, there are only 2 laboratories that DNA test for VWD one is Finzymes in Finland the other is Vetgen in the US, (there may be others in the US but there certainly are no others in Europe) these are the ONLY places that test & give the accurate results of CLEAR CARRIER & AFFECTED there are other laboratories that test, one in Germany i know of Labokiln but i believe they do the test with a blood test so when you get a result of FREE all it means is that they are not affected, they could still be carriers, it is not an accurate test.
User avatar
keyala
Junior member
Junior member
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:22 am
Location: FRANCE

Unread postby bmgillespie » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:54 pm

keyala wrote:The answer to your question is this, there are only 2 laboratories that DNA test for VWD one is Finzymes in Finland the other is Vetgen in the US, these are the ONLY places that test & give the accurate results of CLEAR CARRIER & AFFECTED there are other laboratories that test, one in Germany i know of Labokiln but i believe they do it with a blood test so when you get a result of FREE all it means is that they are not affected, they could still be carriers, it is not an accurate test.


Thank you, I kind of new this already, but like I said there is a vWD1 going around and now that I know this the vWD "free" thing should not be acceptable. All the money breeders are charging for there puppies, what is a 100 or 150 euros to have the dogs tested? I have done some checking and is still in the process but I know for instance that the main stud Fedor is a carrier and also found out that most of his pups that have been tested are the same. This is not a problem but the problem is that a lot of his matings the feales have not even been checked. Why does everyone over there just asume they are not affected? I really would not even breed two carriers. It is good to see that Mamim has been tesgted because he is going to be the next widely used stud from appearences. Also, I have been checking and most of the top studs have not been tested or are not posting true results. I am glad to see that Pimms has been and a few other that states clear and not this "Free" bullshit. In my haste to pruchase Euro dogs, I did not do my research as I should have. I have tested two of mine and they are "Clear" but that was pure luck. I have 2 more to go and one I am pretty sure will not be clear but maybe "Free" as it goes. I will NOT make that mistake again no matter who the father or mother is. I would suggest that all who purchase puppies and give a DAMN about their puppies and those who say they care about the health spend a couple of bucks and have the test done. It is NEVER to late. Let's fix the things we can first, then worry about the other things. One more thing, we already know that some dogs will get sick no matter what testing we do, but testing on all tests can help, it is the same as humans, we get checkups but that does not mean we will not get sick but sometimes it helps us catch somethings that can be cured, we must do the same with our dogs. My theory is do it before you mate the dog at least you will know that the dog was in good shape before you bred them. I do not believe breeders are doing this. I (from here on out) and everyone esle should require proof of these test before you purchase or mate another Dobermann on either side of the water, especially from the top studs, amke the breeders re-invest some of that money they are making.
User avatar
bmgillespie
Esteemed member
Esteemed member
 
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:27 pm
Location: Ohio.USA

Unread postby keyala » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:08 am

I am happy to say every dog in my kennel is CLEAR most by parentage, i have used 2 dogs that have not been tested, i took a chance for these excellent dogs bloodlines, i did my own research, but having clear females it allows me to do this, i tested all the puppies all were clear, from this i know this dog was clear.
If i did not have clear females i would not take this chance & i dont know how people can continue using dogs known not to be clear on untested females, this is a desease than can be eradicated i do not understand why people do not test
User avatar
keyala
Junior member
Junior member
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:22 am
Location: FRANCE

Unread postby Ronindobe » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:52 am

Bravo! :)
Ronindobe
Esteemed member
Esteemed member
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 7:29 pm
Location: Illinois, USA

Unread postby jotunheim » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:39 am

I think you all should visit the web site of:

- Laboklin
- VetMedLab

both in Germany - and read the pages. Think you'll be in for a surprice ...

Furthermore - Laboklin is the only lad that does the analyce, which means - if you use VetMedLab, they send it on to Laboklin.
Also, I have seen their written reports, and I have some here too, on dogs which were evaluated through Laboklin.

- they use the term DNA clear
- they state that a carrier can become ill
- vWD Typ 1 autosomal-dominant mit variabler Penetranz vererbt wird

and ..

Image

I leave the rest up to you guys, to evaluated how usable these test are ...
Last edited by jotunheim on Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Bitten Jönsson
jotunheim
Esteemed member
Esteemed member
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:02 am

Unread postby jotunheim » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:46 am

As you can't force people to test their dogs, the next best thing one can do, when using non tested dogs, is to test the whole litter. This is what we do, when we only know the restult of our own females.
Bitten Jönsson
jotunheim
Esteemed member
Esteemed member
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:02 am

Unread postby bmgillespie » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:00 pm

jotunheim wrote:I think you all should visit the web site of:

- Laboklin
- VetMedLab

both in Germany - and read the pages. Think you'll be in for a surprice ...

Furthermore - Laboklin is the only lad that does the analyce, which means - if you use VetMedLab, they send it on to Laboklin.
Also, I have seen their written reports, and I have some here too, on dogs which were evaluated through Laboklin.

- they use the term DNA clear
- they state that a carrier can become ill
- vWD Typ 1 autosomal-dominant mit variabler Penetranz vererbt wird

and ..

Image

I leave the rest up to you guys, to evaluated how usable these test are ...


thaks for the info, but still not sure by chart what is clear, carrier or affected. Could yhou please explain?
User avatar
bmgillespie
Esteemed member
Esteemed member
 
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:27 pm
Location: Ohio.USA

Unread postby jotunheim » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:04 pm

bmgillespie wrote:
jotunheim wrote:I think you all should visit the web site of:

- Laboklin
- VetMedLab

both in Germany - and read the pages. Think you'll be in for a surprice ...

Furthermore - Laboklin is the only lad that does the analyce, which means - if you use VetMedLab, they send it on to Laboklin.
Also, I have seen their written reports, and I have some here too, on dogs which were evaluated through Laboklin.

- they use the term DNA clear
- they state that a carrier can become ill
- vWD Typ 1 autosomal-dominant mit variabler Penetranz vererbt wird

and ..

Image

I leave the rest up to you guys, to evaluated how usable these test are ...


thaks for the info, but still not sure by chart what is clear, carrier or affected. Could yhou please explain?


1 - NN = clear
2 - N/vWD1 = carrier
3 - vWD1/vWD1 = affected

How do you related to the rest of the information on the web sites ...
Bitten Jönsson
jotunheim
Esteemed member
Esteemed member
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:02 am

Unread postby Ronindobe » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:12 pm

In this case the vWd1 is indicating the subtype of vWd that is particular to the Dobermann breed. Haven't checked the site yet but the percentages are interesting. Seems alot more optimistic than generally estimated for the general population.
Greetings Bitten!
Ronindobe
Esteemed member
Esteemed member
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 7:29 pm
Location: Illinois, USA

Unread postby bmgillespie » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:01 am

1 - NN = clear
2 - N/vWD1 = carrier
3 - vWD1/vWD1 = affected


Thanks for clearing that up, I know what to look for :D
User avatar
bmgillespie
Esteemed member
Esteemed member
 
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:27 pm
Location: Ohio.USA

Unread postby keyala » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:29 pm

Bitten

For me i think the only TRUE accurate test is with Finzymes or Vetgen, its clear cut CLEAR CARRIER AFFECTED, i may change my oppinion on Labokiln when i test my puppies & get the results from my Clear Female (by parentage) & a Clear male tested with Labokiln.
User avatar
keyala
Junior member
Junior member
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:22 am
Location: FRANCE

Unread postby El-Zorab » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:22 am

i guess that "vWD1" was not not referred to the vWD status of the dog, but the vWD-Type that was tested !

remark that there are more than 1 vWD types.

vWD type-1 is transmitted the mendel-way, autosomal dominant with different penetrance and is the vWD type that is found at our dobermann.

other breeds have also vWD but it can be vWD type-3 for instance and not every type is transmitted the same way.

regarding the fact that vWD-type 1 which is found at the dobermann has different penetrance (this means dogs can be vWD affected genetically but can have a normal coagulation and no problem in their every day life at all)
all the testing and hysteria regarding vwd, coming straigt from the USA, is really pointless.
only 5 % of the dobermann population is actually genetically affected and from those 5 % i guess maybe in worst case 1-2 % really do have a coagulation problem.

if you would test every dog used for breeding i am sure you will find quite a high number of females who are genetically affected and who gave birth to many litters without bleeding to death at all.

from my own friends i know a guy who had a VWD affected female who gave birth to 5 litters without bleeding to death at all.

what kind of desease is it when it doesnt make any severe problems ? regarding the precentage shown by the laboklin statistics we should have heard from many cases when dogs died because of that, but it doesnt happen because most of the genetically affected dogs dont have any problem at all.

this is just hysteria made by vets and labs to earn money.

whe have really other problems with our breed than vWD.

there is a german proverb which says :

why does a dog lick his balls ? - because he can !

the same it is whith this test. we do it because we can (and because it helps to sell puppies to america).
User avatar
El-Zorab
Junior member
Junior member
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:36 pm

Next

Return to General dobermann issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron