Longevitity & Feeding

Longevitity & Feeding

Unread postby bmgillespie » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:14 pm

We talk a lot about how long our dogs are living but we seem to be forgetting an important thing. What we are feeding our dogs I beleive has a lot to do with it. I had dogs back in the 70's and eighties that lived well over 10 years and I fed them whatever dog food was on sale, I beleive now just like with humans it has a lot to do with all the chemicals they are using now. I think we should be asking people with long lived Dobermanns what they are feeding them. We know most dog foods are bad and some use the RAW diet. Everyone cannot do this I know but if we study what the Dobermanns that live long are eating maybe a step in the right direction. I know this will not solve all of our problems but if we look at it from a human standpoint. What we eat affects what diseases we get and how long we live. Cancer is included in this as well as cardio problems. What do you think?
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Unread postby ins0mnia » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:45 pm

Hello bmgillespie,

Excellent post! I was hoping someone would pay attention to this issue!

We switched to FRESH food after we discovered our Dobie's HD condition (medium, nothing that is bothering him) and since then his health has improved ALOT.

His allergy is much better, he had three knee operations and the healing process has been much faster than the average dog thanks to the improved immune system because of feeding fresh food.

This is what he eats:
1.Fresh meat (raw or little cooked): Turkey, duck, beef, lamb, or venison

2. Vegetables: Carrots (Vitamin A, B, C, D, E, G, K, potassium, calcium), Parsley (helps with oxygen metabolism, with the adrenal and thyroid glands, healing for the genito-urinary tract), Celery (Contains organic sodium maintains fluidity of blood and lymph, natural diuretichelpful for arthritis, water retention, urinary problems), Paprika, Watercress, Apple, Banana, Mango

3. Once-a-week: Cheese-cubes, 1 boiled egg, plain yogurt

In addition, he gets the following suppliments:
1. Polar oil (better Omega 3 consistency than fish oil)
2. Cosequin DS & MSM for dogs (to maintain Echo’s joints)
3. Evening prime rose oil (Contains Omega 6)
4. Dorwset Garlic & Multi-veg tablets (helps with Echo’s allergy)
5. Caniderm-V (vitamins, minerals, herb mix)

We have recently started to add vitamin C to his diet, many studies show that it helps the immune system. By the way, when given during pregnancy it boosts the immune system of the newborn puppies.

We have a blog about why we've chosen this diet, it took us a lot of time and research to come to this conclusion:
http://www.lordecho.com/diet_and_health/

So yes, everyone please do share your experience! :)

Well written bmgillespie!:)
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Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:01 pm

Insomnia, you will have big problems with firms from artificial fooding industry :lol:
My respect Insomnia.

Many actual lost their instincts to EAT !
Is time to return to Furstenfeld true breeding model. :lol:

P.S. For Specialists which advertising exclusive artificial mode of fooding , I wish for them and their familys 1 year to fooding only with artificial cosmonauts fooding .
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Unread postby Weinberge » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:20 pm

I will make soon a little movie with both my two fooding machines and I will show how devored carrots and any natural fooding (garlic, onion, etc) .
More like a rabbit :lol:

Sure, some idiots accouse this mode of natural fooding and public and .....private. Ups. :wink:
But all at his time.
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Unread postby BasKal » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:08 pm

ONION is toxic Alin...Dont give it to them.
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Unread postby bmgillespie » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:31 am

Insomia,
Thank you for your post. I am going to try your method :D
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Unread postby bmgillespie » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:45 am

Hello Insomnia,
Me again, In what quanities do you give this receipe and how. Especially the vegetables and suppliments.

Baskal, I also heard onions were VERY bad for dogs.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:21 am

BasKal wrote:ONION is toxic Alin...Dont give it to them.


Ciao my friend.

I don't know if onion is toxic, we humans use onion.
Anyway, I don't use onion for fooding my dogs, but some time them don't lost any ocasion to steal any vegetable.
Always I have problems to keep them in normal weight.

My little Royal Weinberge :lol: female touch 40 kilos and idiots said (because they know I don't use granulas in exclusive mode ) I have no powerfull dogs because I don't fooding them with granulas.
Citto is fooded by his co-owner exclusive with expansive granula and don't have body mass of my females.

Or maybe they need to meet Mohican to play with their surogats to understand in their brain what mean true power .

I am sick by soo much stupidity like I found in this world.
Last edited by Weinberge on Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby ROBIN » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:58 am

I don't know if I am in the correct post but i have to say that since 2 years ago that I am feeding my dogs BARF I have seen 2 different animals. The male that had EPI and was using a very expensive dry food and medical supplements (enzyma capsoules) is now 100% OK and he gain weight and volume. As concerning the female I struggle to keep her under 40 Kgrs.
I have to see what will happen in the long run but up until today I am 100% satisfied.
Robin of Clyde ,you will always live in my heart

www.doberman.gr
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Unread postby ins0mnia » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:26 pm

Hello again,

Valencia thanks for the compliment :) I do agree with BasKal though, be careful with Onion. Sambal, Peppers, Tomato, Spinach, and Cucumbers are also to be avoided; they don't digest very well. "Powerful", what is a "Powerful" dobie if he gets a cardic arrest at the age of 3? :) I agree with you, health comes first.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that the selection of vegetables is also based on our experience, for example even though Broccoli is rich with vitamins and minerals, we stopped using it because it tends to produce gases in the stomach (same with Brussels sprouts, Beans, Turnip and Cabbage). The last thing we want is our Dobie farting around all day :-)

Bmgillespie, we pretty much use the following rule: 80% fresh meat (little cooked), 20% vegetables. We blend both together in a mixer/blender and we add oatmeal (soaked with water). The oatmeal will provide some fiber to the diet, but it also makes sure the poop is dry!

Believe it or not we follow up even on our Dobie's poop, if it's not dry and it looks "light" then we know something is wrong.

Normally we feed our dog twice a day, he eats about 0.5kg before noon and about 0.5 - 1kg during the afternoon. Depending on his appetite.

When it comes to the supplements:
Caniderm-V: We add one spoon to the food
Garlic & Multi-vet tablets: 2 of each, twice a day (they do wonders! specially for skin rashes, specially under the chin! they simply disappeared!)
Omega 3 & Omega 6: One spoon each (healthy shiny true dobermann skin!)
Cosequin DS & MSM: Two tables each a day

When it comes to once a week Cheese/yogurt, we have this habit of making pizza on Friday evenings, and our Dobie knows whenever we open the mozzerella package to use it on the pizza, he's having some himself hehe :) He can hear it from miles away!

I can't say that we are 100% BARF supporting people.. because when it comes to pork, turkey for example we feel that it makes more sense to cook them very well as they contain a lot of bacterias. We feel more comfortable doing that with red meat, there we cook a little/medium and sometimes we give our dobie a snack or two of non-cooked. BARF or not, as long as it's fresh that what counts for us.

Even though the "diet" might seem expensive or complicated, it's really not when you think about it. For us, we feel that dry food (we used Royal Canin, Hills etc) made things worse for our Dobie's health and we could see almost an immediate effect when we switched to fresh food. Maybe opening up the dry food box is easier than blending fresh food, but we'd do anything to gain couple of more living years for our dobie, he's been through a lot of crap since he was a pupp and we just want him to have a long happy life ;)

One last point that I'd like to add (hope I'm not writing to much), fresh food helps decrease stress levels and stress is a key contributor to cardic arrests. I've seen many topics about producers such as Fedor or Jared (RIP) and a lot of discussions about looks, head shape etc (that's just an example, donno what food they get). But if we are to have healthy offsprings then we need to make sure that we genetically influence the breed by making sure we provide fresh healthy food, *specially* for producers that we believe are going to influence the breed (I'm not a breeder, just sharing my opinion).

I've read many studies about the importance of vitamins such as vitamin C to the developments of pupp, before and after birth. I feel that it is our duty to research, look further into this and research the implications of providing the right vitamins, minerals even during pregnancy, I previously wrote a post about it an no one replied :). Anyway, dry food is cooked in the ovin under high tempretures and that kills anything good in it. It's pretty much like eating McDonlads every single day.

In my opinion, a Dobie's life should start healthy, both in terms of diet (explaining to the owners about fresh food diet) as well as in terms of socializing and exposing puppies to different environments before delivering them to new owners to make sure stress levels are decreased to the minimum (lower cardic chances) and they are up for a good healthy start in life.

It's really sad that nowadays it seems that if a dobie lives for over 9 years then it's a "not bad", this seems to be a trend and most don't even make it to 9. As Bmgillespie posted a good question what has changed the past decade? I really wish for my dobie (just like everyone else) to live long and I will do whatever it takes to influence that, starting from healthy fresh food. I think we all, specially breeders, should look closely into this matter.

PS my Dobie is Paradiz Ronado Solomon x Ardens Charlene Clubnika, anyone happens to know anything about their predigee in terms of longevitity? I'm not an breeder nor an expert so it's hard for me to research this..

Anyway.. the above is just my opinion and my own experience...;)
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Unread postby Weinberge » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:25 pm

ins0mnia wrote:PS my Dobie is Paradiz Ronado Solomon x Ardens Charlene Clubnika, anyone happens to know anything about their predigee in terms of longevitity? I'm not an breeder nor an expert so it's hard for me to research this..



Paradis Ronado Solomon ancestors :
SANT KREAL NIVAGO 1998-2007
VICTOR BALESTRIERI 1997-2005
ADELANTE 1997-2000
ADELANTE 1997-2000

Maternal ARDENS CHARLENE CLUBNIKA :
TYSON DI CAMPOVALANO 1999-2006 7 years
ADELANTE 1997-2000
BORANA SAWAGES 1993-1996
ALABAMA 1997-2005
GALAXY GHENDY 1994-2000

No comment.
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Unread postby bmgillespie » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:57 pm

Thank you Insomnia,
I will be mixing up a batch this weekend. I already had them on the frsh meats but I was still using kibble and very few vegatables. I will make the transition with a little kibble until I can weed them ff kibble all together. I beleive that this will help tremendously and has been some of the best advice with a detailed description I wish you and your dog good health and long years. Even though your dogs ancestors do not seem to have a good track record, I beleive what you are doing will increase hs life. I beleive our ancestors past does not have to be ours and the same goes for our dogs. :D Thanks again.
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Unread postby ins0mnia » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:37 pm

Valencia, thank you so much for the information, it means a lot to us! It confirms what we have always suspected and now we're just going to focus on making sure our dobie lives as healthy and as long as possible.

What can I say, we learned our lesson, it's a shame that many other dog owner have to go through this. No further comments either.

bmgillespie, you're very much welcomed and thank you so much for your kind words! If you have any questions about the diet please feel free to message me (I can send you my email and facebook contact as well). I'm 100% sure your dobies would love fresh meat, and if there need for a little push a small tip would be to melt some butter (not too much just a little) and put it on top of the food, it works :-)

What would be interesting is to do an extensive research (all breeders) in order to find the blood lines that produce the best longevitity, draw the conclusions based on that and consider it into the breeding program. I wonder how many breeders would "step up" to the play and participate in such a thing.
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Unread postby Ronindobe » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:12 am

Thank you Insominia and bmg for finally posting something of value on this site. It is the first time in weeks! I am so tired of that idiot FN running his mouth and polluting good informational discourse I have really lost interest in DR. Again at least this was an effort to communicate and discuss rather than trying to stroke off ones puny ego.
As a toxicologist I agree on the onion comment and have been researching how to incorporate the fresh and raw diet into my program. In the meantime I feed a wholistic kibble, Eagle Pack, which is well regarded and the fall back when fresh and raw is a problem.
I have already expressed the opinion that some of the health issues reported, since proper necropsy is seldom done, may reside in dietary and environmental issues. This confounds the identification and search for various health problems usually thought to be genetically based, but which have other contributing pathways as well.
Your direction has merit....pray continue.
PS. good to see you Insominia!
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Unread postby bmgillespie » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:18 am

Ronindobe wrote:Thank you Insominia and bmg for finally posting something of value on this site. It is the first time in weeks! I am so tired of that idiot FN running his mouth and polluting good informational discourse I have really lost interest in DR. Again at least this was an effort to communicate and discuss rather than trying to stroke off ones puny ego.
As a toxicologist I agree on the onion comment and have been researching how to incorporate the fresh and raw diet into my program. In the meantime I feed a wholistic kibble, Eagle Pack, which is well regarded and the fall back when fresh and raw is a problem.
I have already expressed the opinion that some of the health issues reported, since proper necropsy is seldom done, may reside in dietary and environmental issues. This confounds the identification and search for various health problems usually thought to be genetically based, but which have other contributing pathways as well.
Your direction has merit....pray continue.
PS. good to see you Insominia!


Have you ever tried Blue Dog food, I have heard good things about this Brand? It is expensive and supposed to be on same level with Eagle. I have tried my dogs on Insomnia receipe and they love it, I will see how it works out, Should be great.
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