Stud males over 8 years of age stil living

Unread postby Weinberge » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:02 am

Alfa Adelante del Citone - Raviol iz Zoosfery


GREAT !
True and best D'accacio and Faun Weinberge and Citone power via Adelante and true Russian power via Zoosfery via 6 years RAVIOL IZ ZOOSFERY (1997-2003).

Great ! Great ! Great !
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Unread postby Weinberge » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:06 am

Big Champions Breeders!

Do you really wish to comment yours longevive pedigree with names ans facts ?

You don't have any SHAME to presente here like a longevive studs dogs from parents, grand parents and grand grand parents fully by ills which are died under 7 years ?

What it is this theatre on dobermann race ?
How long ?
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Unread postby Weinberge » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:13 am

Waiting more longevive dogs ! :lol:
Let change the topic title " Longevive 7 years dogs "
:lol:
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Unread postby Amandine » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:34 pm

what is the cause of death of Raviol ? I got her daughter from Nestor, she is 8,5 years and never got any health problem till now
Amandine,
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Unread postby Amandine » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:34 pm

what is the cause of death of Raviol ? I got her daughter from Nestor, she is 8,5 years and never got any health problem till now
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Unread postby Kris » Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:27 pm

Amandine wrote:what is the cause of death of Raviol ? I got her daughter from Nestor, she is 8,5 years and never got any health problem till now


Hi Amandine :)


Raviol died of bone cancer. Her sister Rebekka iz Zoosfery was put to sleep because of cancer 25.04.2009 age of 12 years and 2 months.
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Unread postby Kris » Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:32 pm

Valencia,

I'm really not and will be not shame that my dear dog is alive, I'm happy he is alive! I haven't say and will not say his pedigree is more or less healthy than any others.


Kristiina :roll:
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Unread postby Weinberge » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:38 pm

Yes, you can not said the " pedigree is more or less healthy than any others." because is the SAME .

Anyway, I don't reffer to your person maybe you are a inocent person in this world. Nothing personal with you.
But some time I sense fury about what Big Breeders do with dobermann breed.

And today I was fouriouse because I read many old pedigree of our losted Romanian beautiful dobermanns.
HUNDREDTH of longevive dobermanns losted and NOBODY regreat them !

Somebody must to said the TRUTH to this Big Breeders about what they do in dobermann breed !
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Unread postby Amandine » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:41 pm

Thanks for the answer Kristiina :-) I saw the vet to follow Loulla as an old dog every year now, all is ok, but I will tell him to look her more about cancer so, don't know if he can see that in blood, I'll ask :-)
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Unread postby BasKal » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:11 am

Clearly SWH Elisir, IMHO, DIDNT inherit anything bad from his parents, at least regarding the heart. He is a very good sire and it is a shame to accuse him for his bloodlines - which are great in "dobermann qualities".
No all Alpha kids had problems - and it is very important to use them who are long lived.

As for the 8- 8,5 year old barrier, i find it reasonable - it is an age in which most DCM carriers are allready dead, and the expectations for these 8-8,5 year old alive males to live fearther are very good. Also it is an age in wich a male is usually capable to breed succesfully. Breeding to older males is a technique to avoid most DCM carriers in breeding. Unfortunatelly It has its risks too - for example due to the higher mutation rate the sperm of older animals has...
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Unread postby Niro » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:06 pm

To list long-lived studs are of no real value IMO - if their parents(pedigree) does not consists of long-lived dogs too..

The above mentioned dog are a good example of that.. To improve health (longevity) at least the parents & grand-parents of a dog should have reached a certain age (and being without serious health problems) before one can expect some improvement..

/Tore
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Unread postby Weinberge » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:12 pm

Niro wrote:To list long-lived studs are of no real value IMO - if their parents(pedigree) does not consists of long-lived dogs too..

The above mentioned dog are a good example of that.. To improve health (longevity) at least the parents & grand-parents of a dog should have reached a certain age (and being without serious health problems) before one can expect some improvement..

/Tore


:smt023
Then the unique correct mode to apreciate a long-live bloodline is THE PEDIGREE AVERAGE AGE and study minimal 3 generations ANCESTORS.
Because this and because the Big Breeders hided the truth about premature champions deathand they bla bla about 'rainbow bridge' and cry with falsity (I can offer many examples ), we need THE DATABASE and a OBLIGATORY OFFICIAL DEATH CERTIFICATE !

All the Cahmpions must to accomplish some minimal CRITERIAS: working results, average blood-line age , clear by genetic diseases .
If one his parent or two grandparents will died by grave genetical disease (cancer, DCM, etc), the dog must never get the Champion title !

I have doubt than actual breeders and liders will accept to sacrifice their titles amd bussines in favor of dobermann health .
They preffer to lie ahead regarding premature deaths and keep their ephemeral advantages and destroy dobermann breed.

......nobody have interest to make that because negative impact for their bussines.
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Unread postby BasKal » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:56 pm

I disagree - a long lived healthy animal is always worthy. Most genetic diseases are controlled by only a couple of genes and DCM (our prime concern) looks a dominantly inherited disease - this means that ALL CARRIERS WILL DEVELOPE THE DISEASE. The "escapes" are probably the ones that DIDNT INHERIT even a single "bad" gene - probably from matings between ill heterogygots.
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Unread postby jotunheim » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:14 pm

BasKal wrote:I disagree - a long lived healthy animal is always worthy. Most genetic diseases are controlled by only a couple of genes and DCM (our prime concern) looks a dominantly inherited disease - this means that ALL CARRIERS WILL DEVELOPE THE DISEASE. The "escapes" are probably the ones that DIDNT INHERIT even a single "bad" gene - probably from matings between ill heterogygots.


Sorry - Baskal - I disagree with your statement - the genetic picture of DCM has so far not been confirmed as being of dominant nature.

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Unread postby BasKal » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:54 pm

It is comfirmed enough - for me.
At least the majority of todays dobermann DCM. It is real that other breeds suffer from other types.
I suspect only that may a small portion of the DCM in dobermanns are due to a X-linked reccesive factor (dominant for boys - reccesive for girls), because a common mitochondrial line with the G Dane exists in the breed.
Anyway, this is the way I think - you can think otherwise.
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