DCM Genetic Mutation Identified by WSU in the USA

Unread postby Ronindobe » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:41 pm

V. I did not say that I did not want disclosure...far from it. I was trying to tell you that according to the law here and in most industrialized countries, this type of information is considered private and unpublishable by name without the express consent of the owner of the body being tested. Because of the legal entanglements this is unlikely to change. Animal info will parallel human, because of the way the legal community works and the animals are owned by humans. This is not my construction. No club or breed organization or even FCI demands this information for registry or ZTP yet to my knowledge, and perhaps they should start. This is the same as "voluntary disclosure" at that level. They are free not to disclose but then can't reg the dog or compete.

So yes, at this point all you say of people being able to hide or lie about the data on their dogs continues to be true. Further there is not in place a method to determine if a sample from a clear dog has not been sent in another perhaps more politically sensitive dog's name. It would still relay on the honesty of the owner....until DNA is required on file for all dogs to cross identify in questionable cases.

One wonders if the FCI or DV would go down that road as many of the high officers are some of the owners of dogs and lines in we have questions about.

Till then it is up to the purchasers to apply ecomonic pressure and ask questions, demand answers.


8)
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Unread postby Edgecrusher » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:44 pm

I am very curious whom of the well known breeders will publish the results of their dogs. I can imagine a lot of them won´t do that. For me there´s no question about ... the day will come to buy a new puppy. And it will only be a breeder with a litter of parents will published DCM results!

I hope breeders and Dobermann purchasers will take the chance and cure our beloved race.
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DCM testing

Unread postby teagie » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:00 pm

sorry !!!
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DCM testing

Unread postby teagie » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:00 pm

It is very simple, without a published result for all tests a dog cannot pass IPO and ZTP , also to be a champion a dog must have published tests, The DV , FCI and officers of IDC have the power to demand this and if they do not we as owners and breeders must ask why , we also have power ,do not buy a puppy unless parents are tested ,when breeders are left with no show and work homes or no homes at all for their puppies they will have to do tests :lol: :lol: :lol:
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DCM testing

Unread postby teagie » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:01 pm

Double post:
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DCM testing

Unread postby teagie » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:01 pm

Double post
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Unread postby teagie » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:02 pm

Double post
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Unread postby teagie » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:09 pm

!!!!!!
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DCM testing

Unread postby teagie » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:15 pm

!!!!
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Unread postby teagie » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:16 pm

sorry!!!!!!!
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Re: DCM testing

Unread postby jotunheim » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:34 pm

teagie wrote:It is very simple, without a published result for all tests a dog cannot pass IPO and ZTP , also to be a champion a dog must have published tests, The DV , FCI and officers of IDC have the power to demand this and if they do not we as owners and breeders must ask why , we also have power ,do not buy a puppy unless parents are tested ,when breeders are left with no show and work homes or no homes at all for their puppies they will have to do tests :lol: :lol: :lol:


Why have you left out participation at shows in general, when you incl. IPO and ZTP ?

You make it sound easy but it's not easy at all ...

- FCI set down the standard
- The Kennel Clubs which are full members must comply those requirements - but not all countries are full members, some are so-called accociated members
- The Kennel Clubs within each country set down some basic breeding requirements - and they are NOT the same in each country - far from
- In Germany, the DV set down the breeding requirements
- The IDC - well .... their influence is merely political, and are actually bound by the requirements set by FCI and the Kennel Clubs, and partly the DV

So where do you suggest should be the organisation, which ammend the overall requirements in regard to:
- working participation
- show participation
- breeding restrictins/requirements
AND - do you think all countries will agree to these ?
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Re: DCM testing

Unread postby bmgillespie » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:32 am

jotunheim wrote:
teagie wrote:It is very simple, without a published result for all tests a dog cannot pass IPO and ZTP , also to be a champion a dog must have published tests, The DV , FCI and officers of IDC have the power to demand this and if they do not we as owners and breeders must ask why , we also have power ,do not buy a puppy unless parents are tested ,when breeders are left with no show and work homes or no homes at all for their puppies they will have to do tests :lol: :lol: :lol:


Why have you left out participation at shows in general, when you incl. IPO and ZTP ?

You make it sound easy but it's not easy at all ...

- FCI set down the standard
- The Kennel Clubs which are full members must comply those requirements - but not all countries are full members, some are so-called accociated members
- The Kennel Clubs within each country set down some basic breeding requirements - and they are NOT the same in each country - far from
- In Germany, the DV set down the breeding requirements
- The IDC - well .... their influence is merely political, and are actually bound by the requirements set by FCI and the Kennel Clubs, and partly the DV

So where do you suggest should be the organisation, which ammend the overall requirements in regard to:
- working participation
- show participation
- breeding restrictins/requirements
AND - do you think all countries will agree to these ?


If you are saying what I think you are saying, the answer is No, It will never happen. The only way it will come to pass is if people do not buy puppies from dogs that are not tested. That will be the best campaign to get dogs tested and there will be cheats even on this unless the clinic can identify difference in samples collected because if a breeder has one clear dog what will keep them from just submitting the same sample under different names. This can be done with vWD test also. Both, should have to be done by certified vets or clubs. That will be the only way it can be done truthfully and that still leaves margin for cheating.
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Unread postby bilclarie » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:27 pm

bmgillespie you make a good point about dogs being tested by a vet there is so much corruption in the dog world already I wouldn't put it past certain breeders to do this, I have sent off for test kits this morning and when they arrive although I'm quite capable of doing it myself I shall book an appointment with my vet to do this for me, that way there can be no mix up with my dog's anyway :wink:

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Unread postby Ronindobe » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:27 pm

The idea that tests collected by vets is somehow more accurate is naive. I wish that a professional standing was some guarantee of ethics, but it is obviously not. Witness the antics in goverment, law, medicine, business that occur daily. "Favors" are done all the time, for clients identified as being financially important. Most professionals and people try to be ethical in their actions, but money has a way of corrupting some.

Tests that are certified by the testing agency, may be "mislabeled". When enough data is collected, it is likely that eventually tested relatives and progeny will reveal the truth. Then the owner will be free to cry " it was a mistake". Only some damaged reputations and the potential of litigation, financial damage will minimize this.

The community as a whole probably has a good idea of which people to be skepitcal of. Which to watch closely. It is going to be largely up to us to ask questions and maybe even point fingers when the time is appropriate.

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Unread postby jotunheim » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:01 pm

We have used vets for the vWD - and do you know what, the vet costs came to approx the same as 1 swab. In other words, each of our vWD tests have come to approx US 200,- and why, because we would like to awoid any form of rumours ...
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