ROmanian dobermanns - looking to the future

Unread postby Weinberge » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:52 pm

After two generations, I presente the new deffinition of Furstenfeld dobermanns head.
In next generations we will finish and fix this head and in head typicity and we will enter in yours Arena with Arena.

My Coco (female)
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Unread postby Weinberge » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:54 pm

The male
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Unread postby Weinberge » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:09 am

Focus, you have a problem.
Let see what Vanna Fortobella mitochondrial DNA have...via GRAVIN HERA V NEERLANDS STAMM ...via GRAVIN ANUSJKA V. NEERLANDS STAM , via GRAVIN ROEANKA V. NEERLANDS STAM ...we arrive on LOTTE V. NAUNHOF .

How ? :shock: It is not Olive Bamby - soo numerouse in Frankenhorst pedigrees ? :shock:
You have a problem. Because LOTTE V. NAUNHOF is daughter of GITTA V.D. SÜCHTELNER HÖHEN and sister of IGON V. NAUNHOF , father of CARMEN V. FELSINGPASS , mother of CITTO and CITTA V. FÜRSTENFELD.

Vanna have the FULLY and INTACT mitochondrial DNA of Furstenfeld fatherline !
Now you can avoid Furstenfeld how much you can ! LOL

P.S. I will make the same what Furstenfeld did and I will introduce on my bloodine a sud from your Vanna bloodline , preferable mixed with Diamante studs .
You know what I talk.

In foto Painted Dream - Best Romanian Breeded Dobermann
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Unread postby Weinberge » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:20 pm

For me is clear, the person which said "at the base of every strong kennel/bloodline exist a strong female" has right .

Let to see the mitochondrial DNA (passed unalterated from mother-daughter each generation) of the next ancestors :
JACK V. SPESSART , father of J,G,H WEINBERGE litter ->GOLDINE V. SPESSART -> LENCHEN V. INDIAN-SPRING
-------
PRINZ V. NORDENN STAMM ->paternal QUINN DEI NOBILI NATI -> TAIRY DI CAMPOVALANO -> CHENJ (LOI)->THANY DEL DENTE D'ACCIAIO(FHAUN DEL DENTE D'ACCIAIO x GUNDA DEL DENTE D'ACCIAIO )

PRINZ V. NORDENN STAMM ->maternal ALEXA V HEIDERHOF ->ANKA V. FRANKENLAND -> FEBRA V. NÖMMEGARTEN ->LENCHEN V. INDIAN-SPRING

PATHOS DELE QUARCE NERE -> COCA COLA DELLA SINVESSA ->RENI V. NORDEN STAMM ->RENI V. NORDEN STAMM ->ALEXA V. TAUBERGRUND ->FEBRA V. NÖMMEGARTEN ->LENCHEN V. INDIAN-SPRING

Injection complete ! GENIAL !

Furstenfeld seems to be a titan which had only paternal role .
I do not find (in actuality) the maternal Furstenfeld mitochondrial DNA . And I don't find yet, all roads are closed or hided.
Furstenfeld is the "Father" in dobermann race .

P.S. Before somebody say "I'm the Furstenfeld SON" is good to search back in pedigree to see how much Furstenfeld power have and see the maternal mitochondrial DNA . lol
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Unread postby Weinberge » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:25 am

Let find the maternal mitochondrial DNA (Mt-DNA have inheritance only from mother to daughter) of longevive BORDO V. FURSTENFELD
Bordo mother is INKA V.D. NORDBURG ->EDDA V.D. NORDBURG ->DINA V.D. BRUNOBURG .
DINA V.D. BRUNOBURG has a sister named DELFI .
Now..inverse ...

DELFI V.D. BRUNOBURG ->ASTRIED V.D. WALGERNHEIDE ->SONJA V.D. BRÜNOBURG ->ANKA V. TEGERNBACH ->MIRA V. TEGERNBACH ->
->AMI COBRA -> SANT KREAL NOVELLA -> SANT KREAL ZEUS .

Then..SK ZEUS have the BORDO V FURSTENFELD maternal MtDNA doubled by Diamante Furstenfelds.
Was sufficiently to heard Zeus, my instinct work again. :lol:
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Unread postby Uzzy » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:27 am

Alin, I have no idea whatsoever how this maternal mitochondrial DNA should be calculated, but you made me curious about the existence of Furtstenfeld in most of the powerful dogs you have spoken about. And what I found made me smile :lol: Looking back in Titan's pedigree, on both maternal and paternal line, starting with the 10-11 generation and going back, Furstenfeld is the most dominant, especially Citto and Cita. Funny thing, even Franckenhorst, the one you once said you did not like is loaded with Furstenfeld blood.
As I do not have much knowledge about the calculation formula, I would appreciate if you could explain a little more about how exactly you can determine which female has the most dominance in a pedigree.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:35 pm

Dear Cristina ,
The Nuclear DNA , yes, must be calculate ussing Galton law.
The Mitochondrial DNA (Mt DNA)no need calculation because is passed only from Mother to Daughter , again and again , without any losting between generation. With other words, your dog have 100% Vanna MtDNA , but because is male can not pass him ahead.

The Mt-DDA is passed to males from mothers, but the males can not transmit this genetical information. Males have the role for diversity, participate 50% to Nuclear DNA creation but the stability of blod-lines is maternal .
This genetical mecanism help the races evolution and race diversity.

It is little strange , but...all roads go to few females ...Fedor to a Russian female ...Oby Kenoby to a Eastern female...Pimm's to LENCHEN V. INDIAN-SPRING, etc.
I think that females bloodlines has a fantastic maternal power ...
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Unread postby Weinberge » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:18 am

Focus,
Like I already told you in our last short discussion :-) I waiting you with your Lucky bloodline in arena and don't forget, you said that "dobermann is round " , but this arena is a ROUND circle too.
I waiting you to get your place in this round arena ,you know about what I reffer.

Wish that NOBODY from world to have power to broken Romanian dobermanns again !
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Unread postby El-Zorab » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:09 pm

i am more than sure that the mitochondrial dna of a dogs surely does not have anything to do with the way this dog will look like or if he will look similar to dogs from a typical certain line... really some nice metaphor for your theories alin but nothing scientific....
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Unread postby Weinberge » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:06 pm

Yes, Mitochondrial DNA have NOT influence on fenotip and do not imprim the type.
If we talk about type , characters etc, yes, we talk about Nuclear DNA which is inherited 50% from each parent .

But the Mt-DNA is the maternal marker who can prove the ascendance in a specific family, because between families exist genetical differances inclusive on Mt-DNA . The Mt-DNA have important role in cells : is the cell's ageing clock, is the energy factory of body , have important role in cells metabolism and can be considered a really health marker . The MtDNA diseases are GRAVE and with FAST organism destruction .
All thats are not methaphors, are facts .

The best dobermanns ascendance are convergent only on few great females , most probable with different genetical bagage. Coincidance ? I don't believe in coincidances.
I believe that who said the words "a strong bloodline have on base a great female " have RIGHT.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:09 pm

Valencia wrote:After two generations, I presente the new deffinition of Furstenfeld dobermanns head.
In next generations we will finish and fix this head and in head typicity and we will enter in yours Arena with Arena.


Let play one moment with cards on the table:
In the next my matings I will accept to mix my bloodline only with Sonny del Citto (for who he is and for his power) and onlywith Diamante/RIO-Bianco descendants .

I will inbreed on Romanian Queen & Princess sisters doubled by 2-3 Urbano and I have in plan 3-3-4 Victor Vito & 2-3 Urbano via Pathos .
Waiting the players response.

About anything else I say : Pas !
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Unread postby Ferdinand » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:00 pm

3-3-4 inbreeding on Victor Vito del Rio Bianco... do you know from what he died with 8 years of age?
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Unread postby Weinberge » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:28 pm

Ferdinand wrote:3-3-4 inbreeding on Victor Vito del Rio Bianco... do you know from what he died with 8 years of age?


Yes, I know, and I know and why. My bloodline never has same problem and from my knowledge nor Citone.
Anyway...if the game will be losted I preffer to lost together with Furstefeld from Diamante bloodline and an D'acciaio descendant , prefferable powerfull Sonny del Citto :lol: .

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Unread postby BasKal » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:46 am

Anyway... taking it as a game, who were the tail female founders of the existing dobermann breed? Which "Mitochondrial line" ( or better, Tail Female line ) goes to the authentic Luis Dobermann female? Or at least to some of her descedants?
Who "inherited" and further developed the dobermann breed from the authentic Luis Dobermann stock after his death? Otto Goeller. So the most proven as authentic Dobermann tail female - MDNA line, must go to Goeller stock - and even better, to the 19nth century unregistered Dobermann stock thgrough Goeller stock. Dead ends to dogs who cannot be traced before 1920 may are not Dobermann lines at all - many other breeds were introduced at this period.
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Unread postby Weinberge » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:48 am

Philip Gruning said that Otto Goeller in his first writings said that the original doermann has NO tail. After that he never said that again.

Sure..this quaracteristic has nothing to do with MtDNA , but this is the prove that something was changed in dobermann race inclusive on race origin .

Personal I think that the orignal dobermann, at the begining of XIX century , was mixed with other races . That mean different starting bloodlines points and different Mt-DNA. No need to be specialist to see that many actual molosses with over 73 tall round eyes and rotwaiilers character do NOT represent the ORIGINAL dobermanns.

Verry probable that old Russian and Eastern lines to descend from the WW II years dobermanns to represent the ORIGINAL , but we don't know that exactlly because their bloodlines knowed pedigrees are stopped back than 10-15 generations . But they are different and have the original typicty , characters and ..longevity (that Eastern bloodlines lived till to 15).
For me they are the TRUE .

More close than the original dobermann phisical and characterial are few dobermanns borned in a little Romanian town.
I turned the time back but I have doubts that I can save them, because nobody want back from time dobermanns .

To save them mean to change their genetical matrix but their phisical inertia is big and I can't wait and turn back my Arena line ; she is damned to fight in arena of death alone.
By 15 years she is alone, without refresh posibilities (nor in herself) . But she will survive, now her bloodline have sufficiently refresh for the next 10 years.
We will see what will be at the fine of the next 10 years .

Look on next dobermanns typicity...compare with old photos and respond yourself who are the ORIGINAL?

P.S. one of my 2 best males from Urbano already went near one female from this line and Sonny del Citto is sufficient powerfull to resist on non-original molosoidal presure :roll: .
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