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Niro
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 Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Camelot1 wrote: | Arrow was known to have a sharp character ..along with Vitesse v frankenhorst ..these things are not necesarily bad if in the right hands , and is not based through fear ..there is a very thin between sharpness , and fear ...one thing i agree if you got one of these type of dogs they can be a liabilty....however alot of these characteristics in these lines are most properly lost now
Hi Niro
As you know Maschio deux ..and these lines were known to be sharp ..do you or anyone have any first hand knowledge of an another known sharp dog Randy v Sabbatsveld
cheers |
Hi Sir!
Iam sry - i never met Randy - maybe Baskal can say some more about Randy - But i have a friend who met the dog @ shows - he say the same as Baskal - Randy was dominant both to people and other dogs on border of aggression) difficult to handel and train.. But looked great - i dont know why he "only" had IPO1, maybe they did not bother to take him further - iam pretty sure he could reach higher levels.. He had an interesting son in Vito Roveline > he have good offspring in Germany..
Randy was not so much used considering being IDC Sieger, some may not like the character and also i think he had an eye-fault..
About character - it is wrong to say that Les Dux Peupliers are not "work dogs" like Valencia put it.. I have a friend who visit Machico & the breeder.. and though not all people were allowed to "pet" the dog (cause of his tendency to dominate &aggression - both due to genetics and maybe the training (civil protection) - still remmember that he won several work competitions - Les D peupliers work with ALL their dogs and sell puppies to people who work with them..
The only negative thing i have to say - which actually are NOT negative in the right hands (just a challenge) most of the dogs from this breeding score medium & low in "furighkeit" in ZTP/Koer - maybe cause of hardness & dominance - but they score high to very high in all other classification..  |
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BasKal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I never met him too - I only met the breeder once, and he told us his interesting story... |
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Niro
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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On the other hand - maybe it is sometimes the "eyes who see" - i remember what another former breeder in Norway told me - they also visit Machico - they say he was friendly  but with very high self-esteem and self-assured, dominance and territoral - they owned a son of Machico & they could see many of the same traits in their dog > like i did in the son of him again (which i owned )
Maybe it is the same with Randy > the "eyes who see" & how they interpret and make conclusions..But i think to all offspring Machico seems to inheritate self-esteem, tendency to dominance, & in some dogs border to aggression/sharpness... |
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Niro
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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The son of Machico - Quinton Neerl Stam - was important for the prgression in Russia in the breed
This is a dog i like - not mentioned yet - look good (DV winner INT CH)
Rowan V Erjolihof Innbreed on Castor Moor - son of Ali - & grandson of both Ikarus Kollau & Conan Mannesheide = real dogs
Rowan did a good Koerung for life with 1A - y could see vid here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsB8T5KFmvY&feature=channel |
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Weinberge
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| BasKal wrote: | I have some knowledge about Randy - from the breeder's mouth... 
He was a dominant dog, yes. A very full of himself animal - due to his genetics but also his early upbringing which was somewhat "different". |
Randy Clik Up->Berta Konstandt Clik Down + Gino -> Gelo Robis OZN
P.S. Niro, be ritght please. I reffer about Frankenhorst starting base. Do You consider Frankenhorst a working line?
Particular I heard about Arrow and Arabela was hard/sharp dogs. If that is true, then these traits I think was inherited till to Randy .
| Baksal wrote: | "Randy was dominant both to people and other dogs on border of aggression"
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| Niro wrote: | | But i think to all offspring Machico seems to inheritate self-esteem, tendency to dominance, & in some dogs border to aggression/sharpness... |
About LES DEUX PEUPLIERS I nothing say because I do not know kennel activities, I only observe too much hard/sharpness on that working video.
From discussions result my observation was corect.
Remeber I have Citto from Gelo Robis, grand-son of LES DEUX PEUPLIERS.
Personal I preffer Clik-UP/Clik-Down . That is all.
Tks.
Last edited by Weinberge on Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Niro
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Valencia"] | BasKal wrote: |
P.S. Niro, be ritght please. I talk about Arrow and Arabela was not working dogs and I heard they was hard/sharp.
These traits I think was inherited till to Randy .
| Quote: | "Randy was dominant both to people and other dogs on border of aggression"
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About LES DEUX PEUPLIERS I nothing say because I do not know, I only observe too much hard/sharpness on that working video.
From discussions result my observation was corect.
Remeber I have Citto from Gelo Robis, grand-son of LES DEUX PEUPLIERS.
Personal I preffer Clik-UP/Clik-Down . That is all.
Tks. |
Ok Val - Just thought i see y reply to one of my posts with the question if i considerd L D Peupl as work dogs - maybe y meant Arrow & Arrabella - sry - but remember > both Arrow & Arrabella were corner stones in the Les D Peupliers breeding program.
I both consider them as work dogs (both IPO111) & both dogs as being valuable to the breed development - both produced good work dogs..
Without Arrow - No L-litter Wantij (Lobo, Lara, Lorenzo) No Quirinus, No Jivago > would had been a great loss for the breed if Arrow&Arrabella were ignored in breeding..
I think i understand what y mean with "click up & down" > if y mean with that = the abillity to "unreact" and have balance in drives.. i agree with y that is important..  |
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Weinberge
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Niro"] | Valencia wrote: | | BasKal wrote: |
P.S. Niro, be ritght please. I talk about Arrow and Arabela was not working dogs and I heard they was hard/sharp.
These traits I think was inherited till to Randy .
| Quote: | "Randy was dominant both to people and other dogs on border of aggression"
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About LES DEUX PEUPLIERS I nothing say because I do not know, I only observe too much hard/sharpness on that working video.
From discussions result my observation was corect.
Remeber I have Citto from Gelo Robis, grand-son of LES DEUX PEUPLIERS.
Personal I preffer Clik-UP/Clik-Down . That is all.
Tks. |
Ok Val - Just thought i see y reply to one of my posts with the question if i considerd L D Peupl as work dogs - maybe y meant Arrow & Arrabella - sry - but remember > both Arrow & Arrabella were corner stones in the Les D Peupliers breeding program.
I both consider them as work dogs (both IPO111) & both dogs as being valuable to the breed development - both produced good work dogs..
Without Arrow - No L-litter Wantij (Lobo, Lara, Lorenzo) No Quirinus, No Jivago > would had been a great loss for the breed if Arrow&Arrabella were ignored in breeding..
I think i understand what y mean with "click up & down" > if y mean with that = the abillity to "unreact" and have balance in drives.. i agree with y that is important.. |
Good. I am glad because you understand my .
Last edited by Weinberge on Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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CharlieChuck
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Another dog which I have heard different things about his character is Rui Manuel RB, some say he was sharpand hard and very self confident, but some think he was overly agressive. I am not sure but I think he spent his first years in Greece?
Maybe Baskal has seen him first hand and can comment on his character?
P.S. Does anyone also know if he is still alive because he would be 11 this year? |
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BasKal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I had seen him, yes. Agressive dog - to the other dogs and very sharp. |
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Weinberge
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| CharlieChuck wrote: | Another dog which I have heard different things about his character is Rui Manuel RB, some say he was sharpand hard and very self confident, but some think he was overly agressive. I am not sure but I think he spent his first years in Greece?
Maybe Baskal has seen him first hand and can comment on his character?
P.S. Does anyone also know if he is still alive because he would be 11 this year? |
I still has a 6 years Focus dog , a Rui son (Gadis Geromy +Brandenburg). Is to hard. No clik . Need stability. Especial with other dogs is CRAZY ! Imposible to control him.
Sure.. specialists say I don't know to keep the leash on my hand...but in reality is a genetically problem.
With corect stable powerfull genetic female maybe he can born value ...but...no so much genetical reserve and I don't risk.
If will be longevive....and touch 10...and I will need ...
But I don't think that.
Last edited by Weinberge on Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Weinberge
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Other very hard /agresive dog was KONDOROSHATI ULK from LORD ROYAL BELL ( GRAF GUIDO V. FRANCKENHORST + ESMIR ROYAL BELL ) and maternal HECTOR ROYAL BELL /ARROW V HARRO' S BERG /DON DAYAN V FRANKENHORST and a NAPLEMENTE KIWA female .
I know that from RONIN . I don't remeber who import that dog.
RONIN know because he use him in breeding with his old Romanian female.
Impala kennel use this dog too with SCHWARZ TEUFEL ASSU a Doriental Zeus daughter (GRAF GUIDO V. FRANCKENHORST x HEIDY V. HERMANSJOMAIK ). A female , maternal from that line died by leucemy and one brother by 'imunitar problem'.
That is only..a little part....
Really I don't understand how that dogs was promovated in my country and our beautiful dobermanns was losted.
Or..why they don't use our powerfull line in combination with this dogs.
Because thy need to win the RING ussing FOREIGN forces in face of OUR OWN DOBERMANNS?
I have a very bad news for that kind of breeders. They will lost the ring and in future. And the game for sure.
Last edited by Weinberge on Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BasKal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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KONDOROSHATI ULK
I think that he too came in Greece - as a 6 year old...Ugly dog - very straight behind angulation, but I dont remember him as agressive.
Baron Nike was very aggressive in the ring with other dogs when he came in greece - and some sons and grandsons of him also. |
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Weinberge
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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About ULK I don't know details. I never seen him.
My avatar male never atack first and was capable to remaining alone in ring, long time in position. But God protect ! when he start a atack. |
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Weinberge
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Brissili ABC Public a Baron Bryan Harrowsberg son was a very hard dog.
He bite his owner few times and broken his small finnger. Very dominant. Strong and dure dog. With that dog you can not joke.
Was a TITAN. I respect him, because has fantastic power. And put his power near Romanian line and his sons was the last which lost the ring till to veteran class.
Not all his sons inherited his dure character. His sons Brissili, Cid or Don de Aranca from Afra de Aranca was well equilibrated and open charcter dogs. Because strong character of maternal side , Romanian line(my Arena and Afra de Aranca- last Romanian survivors female).
I never understand why Specialists don't use our studs Briss, Cid, Don (all of them has 71-72 cm, then STRONG STUDS)
Why they use stupid dogs or ugly dogs or ill dogs and don't use our dogs?
Why they use round eyes? 3 eye lid ? Stupid character ? Dangerouse ills .
And principal why don't use our females ?
Then what Specialists says about bad Romanian dogs character is a LIE !
In reality was inverse. I don't like to imaginate what can becomed dobermann breed only from dominant lines, without resistance lines.
I think is time to pass over the past , but first must to say the truth and assumate the errors .
If breeders will don't reconsider position regarding breeding , dobermann breed will continue to registrate victims on both sides. |
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Niro
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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About V Bayern dogs - I would be a idiot if i did not agree that the dogs from this kennel are great work dogs considering the results in the "meisterschaft" like DV - IDC etc.. and a couple of "prof service dogs"
I often mention these dogs when discussing "work-lines" - but i admit i have never met a V Bayern dog - i just take for granted what respectable breeders have told me or say - the info in the web and the interviews with Mr Lerner - and so on..
I consider them important cause they are after all not that bad in morphology, seem to live long - and it is important for the variance in the gene pool to use such dogs with different pedigree than the rest - But it strikes me - not so many Bayern dogs have the Koerung - Why?
Also i have a story - i skip the name-dropping on who said it and so on..But the source are very reliable - the guy who told me have seen with his own eyes all the (famous) dogs of the past.. and were a friend of this breeder iam going to tell about.. This breeder - whos dogs are in most of modern pedigrees and bred alot of top-CH dogs and really good work dogs..one of the best breeders of all time.. He used one of the V Bayern studs once and his words were after that - never again - he thought the litter was way below his top litters (in character) - actually his words were crap 
Could just be that the combi did not match/click-- but strange.. So though V Bayern had great dogs - nobody breed only good dogs - that is impossible.. And it is possible to breed geat dogs for sport but still not so great in other settings..
Anybody else have info or comment on this - someone who had first hand knowledge of the V Bayern dogs - maybe Bitten know..? |
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