Working Ability With Good Conformation!

[Weinberge]

[Niro]

The maternal line are not show dogs (as in they did not have great workabillity) - the line belongs to your "circle" Valencia.. He did not choose this V Bayern stud to fix anything.. But to continue his line of work dogs (who also happens to be great show dogs also) - in this special case the breeder opninion was that the father was a "click" down compared to his earlier litters (to use language familiar to you)

- But my point of view was not to criticize anything - just to hear others opinion from people who have met these dogs and know what they are talking about - My conclusion remains never the less that V Bayern breed great work dogs - but i ask questions and iam critical..

[Niro]

Though these dogs are some time ago i think it should be useful to find decendants of these dogs - they are valuable old German "work-lines" which should be preserved in breeding..

Here are a vid-clip of Arras V Wehebach SchH111 Angekoert
(Feus V Nymphenburg SchH111 Angekoert X Afra V Heiderhof SchH111

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SzgrZmi45w

Arras was 12 years old..he produced some good work-dogs

[Niro]

And this one - Jockel V Mahuba SchH111 -
A son of the great Nikolai Klosterkamp X Chanine V Mahuba SchH111 - Jockel has many good decendandts


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIb8BUWq2hc

[Niro]

[Rosamburg]

[Rosamburg]

[Camelot1]

Hi Niro

Great videos ..I have a different one of Nicolai working ..correct me if wrong but is that the young Herr Bork as the helper..and Herr Vogel judging cant see too clearly the face ...Nicolai was known to be hard and full of courage ..as i said before i think chico being in the pedigrees of these working types kept the conformation in check, and bone ...i don't think such dogs would be used in the current agenda of pure working dogs ...nor would frankenhorst types or wantij .So its very difficult to find ideal working dogs that more show inclined would want to use ..working dogs with nice heads ..nice bodies etc .
I dont think some people like the aggression from some frankenhorst dogs ..but i think again it depends on that dog if the aggression is one where the dog comes forward to attack, and not back off from a real type of threat then the dog has confidence ,and courage imo . Obviously real life events tell you more or less what your dog would do in a real life situation ....I think the isolation test away from the owner in a strange place...never experienced it before with the handler threating your dog ..your see by the way dog comes forward if it has a natural confidence .
There also was many aggressive types from Alpha le dobry ..some quite hard also.

.I think the last mating was most properly done by hans Zwan ..and produced Graft Zepp...maybe more matings were needed with this dog to incorporate more working lines in show.....I dont think this dog would have been interesting enough by working people ...but the results asfar as conformation worked well ....takes normally a few combinations to get things correct
cheers
p.s a friend of mine through dobermanns trains dogs for real work military aswell ..he has some or did have anyway dobermanns who could work ..some also from my imports from the past
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlN53Do3i0A

[anais]

Yes on Nicolai video first images we see Ottmar Vogel...

[Niro]

@Rosamburg - I think the bite are very good, this is a short cut of the original vid - Nicolai has a full grip all the time and it seems to be hard..

*The reason i call him great are he was one of the "great" dogs of his era -i think this is accepted among the "experts" ..

*He produced very good "work dogs" - some with very good conformation also - Jockel y can se has a quite good head type.. the World Siegerin Esmir Hermansjomaik.. & more dogs...Nikolai had one of the best conformation among all the great sons of Bingo..

*He is great cause of his work drive - remember he is 9 years old in this clip - today the average Dobermann are in Dobie heaven @ 9 years & do not compete @ high in trials..

I agree with y Rosamburg about your opinion about applying "pressure" from the helper - there is little real threat. But in the case of Nikolai this would be no problem - he passed Koerung (ZVA) with 1A - where there are more pressure, helper dont cooperate, and hits with the stick etc..

Maybe Bitten can say something about his Koerung & and his character - i think for sure she met the dog..

/Niro

[Niro]

[Rosamburg]

I am just saying I would like to see much more, like a full routine.

[Niro]

[Niro]

[Niro]